This is a collection of all virtual resources produced and presented by the CCA. This page will be updated periodically with new materials. Make sure to follow our twitter so you stay up to date on the latest releases.
Keynote Presentations
Description of the video:
00:00
I'm Lucy Bernholz I'm recording this on May 30th 2020 in Northern California
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on the land of the Ohlone and coastal Miwok peoples I was asked to prepare
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these remarks back in April and I started my writing several weeks ago but
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I put off recording this because of what I was writing when I received the
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invitation I remember thinking that it was a tiny reflection of exactly what I
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feared that by inviting me a middle-aged white woman educated employed at a
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university with food shelter clean water and broadband was as sure as sine as any
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that our collective response to a public health crisis was likely to be different
00:39
for me than for most it's going to be very different for black people for
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people of color and indigenous people for people who have some jobs as
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compared to those people who have other jobs for those people who've benefited
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from and continue to support policies and laws that build justice educational
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health and employment systems that destroy both people and the planet
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I feared then and I'm seeing now that even a nonhuman pathogen isn't going to
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be enough for us to focus on our common vulnerabilities six weeks ago when I was
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invited to speak I was afraid that we wouldn't be seeing anything new and now
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I'm recording this on a weekend when the pain and anger of living in a racist and
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unjust society is bringing us into the streets even as we know of the
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biological dangers of being in close proximity with others and we're only at
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the beginning of this whatever its next its roots are here in the very
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brokenness of this now I've organized these thoughts in three parts the first
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is about this idea of newness the second is about digital civil society and in
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the third I'll try to offer some observations specifically for arts and
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artists so first my thoughts on newness I'm an historian I was trained to find
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patterns to tell stories and to examine my own blind spots
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what do I not see Who am I not hearing from because historians rely mostly on
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the written word we focus on the few people who recorded their lives and so
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we're prone to a very skewed sense of who lives who dies and who tells the
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stories we have to assume our stories are incomplete we have to ask who's not
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here this matters now in what may be a world shifting moment I was asked for my
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thoughts but I don't speak for the people whose lives have already been
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touched by the disease and unemployment although I may join them at
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any time and I can only speak to racism as a white person and my thoughts here
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are not profound racism defines our country our systems our current moment
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we could only change that by seeing it committing to an anti-racist future
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actively and comprehensively pursuing reconciliation and repair as an
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historian I've been trained to ask why things happen when they do and I've
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learned that we don't know the answer to that until the new things become old
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distinguishing between what is superficially new and what will be
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meaningful and lasting only happens in retrospect collectively we won't know
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what's new about this moment until we look back at it and the new has become
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the old now that's not true for individuals a new normal
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won't just happen we will create it it's an accumulation of our individual
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choices what we're experiencing now collectively is old not new our systems
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are failing now because of decades of political and financial choices built on
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centuries of racism changing that is on each and every one of us number two some
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thoughts on digital civil society in 2010 some colleagues and I went
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looking for the new we asked ourselves what's changing about nonprofits and
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philanthropy what's new my interest in the question in that particular moment
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was sparked by the Supreme Court's 2010 decision in the Citizens United case I
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thought the decision would fundamentally change the nonprofit sector most
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everyone else who was writing about it at the time was focused on its impact on
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political campaigns I agreed with their concerns but I was looking at something
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else it seemed to me then that a wall between two systems two different sets
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of values was about to be breached the wall was between charity and politics
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one system charitable giving was designed to encourage unlimited
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participation and it privileges anonymity the other political giving had
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been structured with individual limits and requirements on disclosure the court
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decision was going to make breaching the wall between the two too tempting to
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ignore the lure of being able to direct large amounts of money into politics
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through the adjacent system of charity which also conveniently provided a way
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to wash away the donors identities was going to be so strong it seemed to me
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like the path to abuse was clearly marked and that I thought wasn't going
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to work out well I changed my life to pursue this question I sold the company
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and returned to academia I'll spare you the details of the next few years and
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cut to the chase for three years we tried to answer that question what
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changes in charitable and political action really mattered in this weird
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space we call civil society this psychic and privileged realm outside of
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governments and markets what's really different for three years we looked at
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things like money in politics impact investing new philanthropic forms even
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organ donations and we learned slowly that each of these innovations mattered
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but none were the real root of change these were mushrooms in a new soil and
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that soil the thing the mushrooms all shared was digital dependence we operate
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our daily lives now in the liminal space between digital systems and physical
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spaces broadband cell phones video software it's how this conference is
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happening we ignore the political economy of this digital infrastructure
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at our own peril because the digital systems we rely on are commercially
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created and government surveilled they're not neutral public democracy
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supporting or free this is a problem democracies rely on some space
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where we can express ourselves come together peacefully create alternatives
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that governments and markets won't provide and to do this there needs to be
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a way to have a private conversation to think without being observed to choose
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with whom you associate and where in digital spaces all of those activities
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are seen and watched and stored and analyzed by others when we stop looking
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at the mushrooms and started sifting through the soil we had to stop looking
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at institutions and start asking about first principles to move from form to
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function what's the purpose of civil society and democracies why did we
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invent nonprofits and foundations in the first place what's worth keeping and
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what can be updated or gotten rid of what can we invent now that will serve
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the first principles and use the digital capacities productively and
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democratically we went looking for new things and found old ones we stopped
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looking at forms and focused on functions and we realized that digital
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civil society this idea of a digitally dependent space for voluntary action one
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where we can use private resources both analog and digital for public benefit
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doesn't yet exist it was circuitous route from concerns about
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campaign finance to deeply understanding the challenges that Digital dependencies
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present for democracies we may look at the mushrooms the surface level changes
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and think that they matter but what really matters is not the mushrooms but
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the soil in which they grow this experience repeats itself over and over
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again when we get together to think about the present and future of the Arts
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I hope will distinguish between the mushrooms and the soil we're seeing a
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new permutation of jobs health services educational experiments and political
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platforms right now I think these are mushrooms we need to keep our eyes on
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the soil why am I telling you all this because in our pursuit of understanding
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we went looking for new in all the wrong places
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we went looking for something and instead found the empty space that that
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something needs to fill there isn't a digital civil society that's just
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happening we need to imagine it to cultivate it to
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bring it into being and I think this will be true perhaps it's always been
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true for artists and the arts so let me turn now to some thoughts on artists in
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the arts the first two parts of this brief talk I've tried to give you a
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sense of how I think because I don't know what the future holds but I do
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watch and think about a wide variety of things that are happening now what might
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be thought of as ingredients that I'll offer to you here for your own scenario
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planning or debate or discussion but I want to be clear these are observations
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in a moment they may matter individually but a new normal will depend on what we
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do with them they're recombinant possibilities and the collective
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imaginaries we choose to pursue from this moment on so here are some thoughts
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or observations more likely it's notable that the diverse
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economic supports adjacent to the arts that individual artists rely on for
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income separate from their art things like teaching hospitality work cleaning
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services copywriting transcription and temp work they're all falling apart at
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the same time the new normal for the arts it seems to me depends as much as
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anything on finding ways to keep artists alive intellectual property rules that
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have separated physical and in-person work from it's digitized or streaming
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versions are probably not the right fit anymore we live in a world in which our
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physical spaces are digitally controlled and at least for the moment digital
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presentation is about all we've got those spaces are shaped by several
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things intellectual property among them this is
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an this is an opportunity for the arts physical distancing rules means we have
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to think not only about individual or small performances but also individuals
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and small audiences what does that look like from an artist perspective how will
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artists collective eyes what do artists and technicians need from
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IATSE or the Screen Actors Guild now and in the future some of our biggest
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arts presenting organizations in this country
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things like museums symphonies operas and such it seems to me they've been
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trying to attract younger audiences for forever but this moment flips that in
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order to speak to be seen anywhere now you have to fit onto a digital platform
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whether it's YouTube or twitch or Instagram in other words it's no longer
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in this moment about trying to invite young people to your performance space
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but about fitting your performances into young people's attention spaces
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congratulations we're all at the kids table now what an opportunity to learn
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on that note artists will be tempted to and they may already have
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be putting be putting their lives and their livelihoods onto GoFundMe
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patreon and YouTube this is a bad idea look no further than the news industry
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or nonprofits to see why these platforms will eat the arts alive
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can there be a collective effort toward a different outcome can all the museums
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and libraries and performance and presenting organizations and all the art
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nonprofits and creative industries and artists come together to create their
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own collectively owned digital infrastructure a public digital
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infrastructure for the Arts to use what exists now as an on-ramp but build one
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for artists themselves and take the audiences with you that's a possibility
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many people are getting to no place in space and time and sound in different
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ways than before I think these are the raw materials of dancers painters
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musicians and actors and I can't wait to see what the artists have to show us
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thank you for the opportunity to reflect on these ideas and perhaps provoke your
14:30
thinking a bit I look forward to the discussions
Description of the video:
00:04
in the shadow of mourning a man runs for pleasure in
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three weeks time a virus will shut down his country but he doesn't know that yet
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he's making his heart work breaking a sweat because
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the young man is alive he's 25 he was born on a sunday he's wearing all
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white because he's fly he's not going to a ceremony whatever his gear is bright
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as fuck he has nothing to hide running for his health
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his country is sick symptomatic systemic violence sadistic bigots and a
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complicit network of badges and judges and a
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stunning lack of originality really fellas in georgia
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pickup trucks and rifles and lynching the crude instruments soothing the
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cancerous hands bloody racist trigger fingers itching a
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man running for pleasure american illness
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killed him while someone was filming three district attorneys reviewed the
01:02
case two whole months went by and the whole world watched the tape
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before anybody thought to put his killers in prison you want to talk about
01:10
a virus you want to talk about contagion you
01:12
want to talk about something you want to stay
01:14
inside because you just might catch it when you step out your own front door
01:18
on an arbitrary tuesday and you alone finding yourself fighting for your life
01:23
hear something explode like a raisin in the sun heart
01:27
beating at the pace to meet the blood needs of your
01:31
run and suddenly you realize that you can't
01:34
breathe the disease was inevitable but the fallout is preventable we cannot
01:41
eliminate racism but could we america cure
01:45
ourselves of racial injustice justice
01:49
for Ahmaud Arbery i wrote that poem in a moment of anger and despair
01:54
the night before mr Arbery's murderers were charged and jailed
01:58
two weeks later as i write these notes george floyd is dead
02:02
killed while an officer of the law literally knelt down on his neck
02:06
in between i had an illuminating conversation with a mental health
02:10
professional about the nature of race-based hate
02:14
which i initially characterized as pathology
02:18
pathology as in there's got to be some kind of test a person can take
02:24
before they're admitted to the police force that measures a dangerous level of
02:27
racism that officer those men in georgia their
02:30
psychopaths their sociopaths she patiently clinically
02:35
corrected me she says at a minimum racism is not a
02:38
psychological disorder because it can be taught you cannot
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teach a psychopathy so if the racist can be a healthy
02:46
individual it stands to reason that the society and the social codes therein are
02:50
the underlying issue racism is a symptom of a sick
02:57
society a psychologist diagnoses an individual the individual does the
03:03
work to self-stabilize or heal similarly an artist diagnoses society
03:08
an artist gives society the tools it needs to see itself all the good all the
03:13
possibility and also all the dis-ease from which it might
03:17
heal in a short period of time we're gonna go from thinking about
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public health from a virological standpoint
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to thinking about health from an emotional standpoint
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health from a post-traumatic standpoint what i want to do right now is spend a
03:33
little time advocating for the deployment of artists
03:37
as leaders as we collectively heal from the
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trauma of the pandemic i want to challenge the future
03:44
functionality of the cultural sector itself i want to suggest that
03:48
without inspired cohesive political leadership
03:52
it's going to fall on cultural leaders to design and
03:55
model our post-covid healing apparatus i want to talk about how we relearn to
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feel alive in public for the last decade or so i've made a
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lot of art centered work where i used the words cross sector
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or interdisciplinary cross-sector fellowship programs at yerba buena
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center for the arts in san francisco interdisciplinary social practice
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projects through the guggenheim museum interdisciplinary performance from
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carnegie hall to bam cross-sector culture
04:32
caucuses at the kennedy center the terms are accurate
04:35
and useful but the frame that makes them useful
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is the context of the fairly transactional spaces
04:42
that funded the work itself my work bears the mark of class
04:49
distance and privilege there's a healthy share of our arts
04:54
economy that's teetering on that very specific tension the public good
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over here and private or philanthropic wealth over
05:01
here but 2020 has collided those two things
05:04
together in this theater of the absurd called the public
05:08
health for the artist and for arts institutions
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we've been using this frame of cross sector but that implies economic
05:16
categories or vectors our current call is to think about the frame of
05:21
integrated healing instead now i've lived in california my
05:25
whole adult life so the idea of a therapeutic cocktail that involves
05:29
chinese herbs acupuncture exercise poetry readings
05:33
advil and a puppy that just sounds like right
05:36
to me for an individual body integrated
05:40
healing is an intentional approach it involves a
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reciprocal relationship between patient and practitioner it definitely
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combines a wide array of therapies aimed at improving
05:51
one's total health so now extrapolate that to social ill
06:00
our postcovid body politic still runs the course of a pre-covid
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racial timeline a pre-covid climate response a
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pre-covid heteronormative patriarchy this
06:16
particular epidemiological sickness is chaotic it's
06:20
catastrophic and it's an opportunity to address the
06:24
total health of the body politic with art and culture centered as
06:30
medicine the chamber of commerce is thinking about
06:33
the economic crisis the humanitarians our allies we have to think about the
06:38
impending mental health crisis the psychology
06:43
of re-entry
06:54
here is where i wish we weren't experiencing such a crisis of leadership
06:59
it would be awesome for somebody to call out covid 19
07:02
as an integrated opportunity rather than a political problem
07:06
someone to inspire a manhattan project but centered on
07:11
amelioration or a moonshot with culture as the launching pad
07:15
someone operating from a moral center and at the edge of culture but shit is
07:19
too real for me to wait for that particular cure
07:22
i can't act like politics is inherently a force of nature
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when we're facing actual natural disasters in real
07:30
time i'm in the demo of arts workers impacted
07:34
by covid 19. i've lost revenue i've been furloughed
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i've cancelled premieres this is the season of loss and
07:41
adaptation my entire livelihood is built on
07:46
bringing people together and i am personally struggling
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with the fear that it'll be years not months before i feel
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comfortable around people again i am personally
07:58
implicated in the stakes of what we in the culture sector do now before
08:04
any of those identity markers i am human i crave connection
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safe compassionate and expansive human connection
08:13
as the country's traffic lights switch from red to yellow
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arts institutions should be in the crossroads of american culture
08:20
directing us how to walk toward healthy embodied connection
08:25
artists should lead us in the literacy of postcovid social interaction
08:30
rather than producing shows i advocate for arts institutions to intentionally
08:35
produce cultural health funding creatives mental
08:39
health professionals urban planners economists and
08:42
sociologists to intentionally design the landscape of our social
08:47
reintegration arts institutions can skillfully safely
08:51
humanely and imaginatively be the civic glue
08:55
for how our country re-learns to feel alive in public space real-time example
09:03
i'm completing an opera libretto in march of 2020
09:06
when the performing arts field starts to shut down
09:10
through a mixture of savings and hustle unemployment and god's grace
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i get myself to the end of the year i complete the libretto by the end of 2020
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only to find out that the producing theater isn't sure
09:22
how to manage the social or financial economics of presenting a work of scale
09:28
in 2021 so what if instead of work for the
09:33
theater we spent the next year commissioning
09:36
artists to help institutionally design how theater is
09:39
gonna work like if a theater commissioned me to
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design and implement a system to lead a
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collaborative team of staff and stakeholders to rethink our physical
09:52
architecture and design creative experiences within them for our
09:56
postcovid times rethink theaters as sites of
10:01
creative wellness my belief is that most performing arts organizations
10:07
are going to struggle to restore their pre-covid functionality
10:11
you can't realistically imagine in 2021 that the
10:14
goal is to sell every seat in your current
10:17
house even as social distancing policies
10:21
gradually relax there's going to remain this cloud of nervousness
10:24
over our public gatherings at least for a while the proscenium
10:28
cannot be the beating heart of your institutional
10:32
purpose so smart performing arts organizations are presently crafting
10:37
immediate three-year strategies that anticipate a significantly lower
10:41
appetite for extended proscenium experiences
10:45
in crowded spaces arts institutions have to reconfigure how we think about
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space itself my belief is that a viable performing arts organization has to
10:55
reconsider their postcovid mandates so that they
10:59
include social practice artistry public health
11:02
fiscal health brand expansion digital production
11:06
embodied creative commons if you put it another way if general
11:11
motors can be reapportioned to produce ventilators
11:14
how could currently empty theaters and music halls
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be utilized in service of social health used as food distribution platforms or
11:24
testing sites or polling places or spill over waiting
11:28
rooms for hospitals ask ourselves how does our country need
11:32
us tell ourselves maybe i could pay for a
11:35
new work on stage but more urgently i could commission an
11:39
artist leadership in building more equitable
11:42
creative health-centered systems quickly and to
11:46
use my site literally as safe space as the
11:50
country comes back online when i hear news of a hitchhiker struck
11:55
by lightning yet living or a child lifting
11:59
a two-ton sedan to free his father pinned underneath
12:03
or a camper fighting off a grizzly with her bare hands
12:07
until someone a hunter perhaps can shoot it dead
12:12
my thoughts turn to black people the hysterical strength
12:16
we must possess to survive our very existence
12:21
which i fear many believe is and treat as
12:24
itself a freak occurrence those are the words of the incredible
12:30
poet Nicole Sealey i began this talk talking about the
12:35
difference between psychopathy and social ill between a sick person and
12:40
a sick society and maybe now i'll close not by talking
12:44
about difference but the symmetry between acts
12:48
of courage and acts of survival i speak from the vantage point of the
12:54
privileged and the hunted when i think of most of
12:59
the organizers i really love and have learned from Brett Cook, Chinaka
13:04
Hodge, Hidari Davis, Tongo Eisen-Martin, Theaster Gates, Rick
13:09
Lowe, Quran Davis they're artists that are
13:12
making oasis for cultural health in soulful
13:16
ways theirs are acts of intellect of
13:20
community and also the intense feeling that both
13:25
their ancestors and the slave catchers is on
13:29
... and they are and fight i ask of arts institutions and
13:38
the people who support them if not a pandemic what act of nature
13:42
would give us the hysterical strength we need to
13:45
lift the country up to act as some of us must act with the courage it takes to
13:52
survive with our collective health intact
13:59
thank you ♫♪♪ and i see what's being done to my kind ♫♪♪
14:04
♫♪♪ every day i'm being hung to this parade my people don't want no trouble ♫♪♪
14:14
♫♪♪ i just wanna live ♫♪♪
14:18
♫♪♪ god protect me i just wanna live ♫♪♪
14:27
♫♪♪ i just wanna live ♫♪♪
Description of the video:
00:00
hi i'm Jon Leland vice president of insights at kickstarter
00:04
i've worked at kickstarter for over six years and i currently lead
00:07
all research analytics data science and strategy development kickstarter
00:13
if you are not familiar is the world's largest crowdfunding platform for
00:17
creative projects we define creative projects very broadly so we support
00:23
everything including dance theater fine arts
00:27
video games board games design objects consumer products
00:31
technology projects like 3d printers and virtual reality machines we also have
00:37
apparel comic books films music journalism we've had more
00:42
than 180,000 projects successfully funded on the
00:44
platform and just a few days ago we surpassed five
00:48
billion dollars pledged all time the projects on the platform since our
00:51
launch in 2009 that is several times more than the
00:55
national endowment of the arts has given out over the same period with
00:59
such a broad community of creators we have a unique lens
01:02
on how the coronavirus is impacting uh creative communities broadly
01:07
and during this period i've been leading our analysis of how the crisis has been
01:11
impacting our business and our users and helping craft our long-term strategy
01:14
of how to respond i'll walk you through some of the
01:18
acute challenges that we're facing including data and research we haven't
01:21
shared anywhere else and some of the opportunities we see on the
01:24
other side so starting with the business
01:29
we've seen project volume as the number of campaigns just on our site fall 35
01:35
from pre-covid levels so we would normally have about
01:38
4,000 or more projects live at this time of year
01:42
and we're currently under 3,000 live projects at this point
01:47
so that's obviously a significant drop and we're seeing that
01:51
across all categories um however the the less consumer driven the more creative
01:56
type categories have been impacted the most
01:59
and the ones that are dependent on uh physical spaces
02:03
for performance or uh or recording have been particularly hard particularly
02:11
impacted so food has taken a substantial decline
02:14
obviously because restaurants and even commercial kitchens have been
02:17
closed music has been hard hit as musicians cannot record
02:22
in studios and can't perform in most venues
02:25
film has has been severely disrupted as it's very hard to shoot anything at this
02:30
time you can really basically only do editing and the arts have taken
02:34
it particularly in dance and theater which have become virtually impossible
02:39
the categories which have done the best to date
02:42
have been design technology and games and publishing where
02:46
you can continue to work on a lot of these projects
02:50
and develop them under quarantine conditions and
02:53
still often maneuver to manufacture and distribute goods
02:58
even if there are disruptions within that process
03:01
so live projects have declined we've actually seen
03:05
record uh pledge volume on the site so it's a bit of a paradox we have
03:09
far fewer projects but far more money going coming into the platform than
03:13
we've ever seen before
03:16
over the last few weeks so we took a our pledge volume
03:19
definitely took a hit with covid around week 11 of the year which you can see
03:25
on this on this chart but it rebounded after a few weeks
03:29
and has been quite strong over the last several weeks
03:35
and so the way this discrepancy discrepancy works is that for us live
03:39
projects under a hundred thousand dollars
03:40
we've seen take this big nose dive um and had a hard time recovering
03:45
where live for projects over a hundred thousand dollars
03:48
uh we've actually seen more of those projects uh since covid
03:55
and so those large projects are are bringing in a lot of revenue to sort of
04:00
cover for the decline in smaller projects and the
04:04
factors driving their successful fundraising
04:07
we've determined are digital marketing prices so those
04:10
are really low right now facebook ads and things like that can provide really
04:13
good roi for creators that leverage those cards those kinds of tools um
04:19
people are spending just more time and money online under quarantine conditions
04:24
so for creators that are trying to get in front of an audience that is online
04:28
it's actually a great time to be working um
04:32
creators are also being more creative so in terms of what they're leveraging to
04:39
engage their audience and make ends meet so we have more creators turning to
04:43
platforms like kickstarter uh if their physical space
04:48
distribution so if they were distributing through stores that's no
04:50
longer an option um so they're turning to platforms like
04:53
kickstarter raise money or distribute their products
04:58
and while many people are facing significant hardships
05:01
due to the crisis and we'll talk about how it's impacting creators
05:06
people who have maintained their income often have more money to spend
05:10
right now because they aren't spending as much by going out
05:13
and are frequently feeling very generous from what we've seen
05:20
so we wanted to understand what's happening with our community
05:23
a little bit more deeply and so we surveyed them we surveyed 264 creators
05:28
who've had a successful campaign in the last three years
05:32
most of these creators are from the u.s 84% and they really represent
05:36
the broad swath of and broad diversity of creators on our platform
05:42
and what we found was creators are hurting
05:46
so one of the aspects one of the things we asked them about is how
05:49
covid 19 has impacted a number of aspects of their work
05:54
uh over 80% of creators that we surveyed reported disruption to their operations
06:00
or logistics with about 50% saying was very disruptive so that is a
06:05
significant blow to the fundamental ways that creative
06:08
people kind of work on their projects um
06:13
creators are having a hard time balancing creative work with their other
06:16
obligations i think this isn't just true for creatives but
06:18
as we've had to transition and change our lives it's been very difficult
06:22
balancing creative work with family and other other work and just
06:28
transitioning in this crisis they're also feeling less confident
06:31
about the success of their work and they're having to
06:34
evolve um about half of creators are changing the scope of their work
06:38
uh in the face of this crisis and more than 30 percent about a third of
06:43
all creators are actually changing the content itself
06:46
of the work that they're making in response to the crisis because they have
06:49
to adapt to what is now happening in the
06:52
culture
06:56
covid has also delayed timelines across the board for all phases of
07:00
creative work so we we're seeing or we're hearing from
07:04
them that they're being delayed in planning new
07:07
projects and launching existing projects and completing
07:11
projects currently underway so all these are
07:13
significantly disrupted and then delayed as a result of covid 19.
07:17
and that's very difficult for creators that rely on their work
07:20
for as their primary or secondary income source
07:26
particularly when 73 percent of creators report a loss of personal
07:31
income they need for creative work that is a staggering percentage
07:35
i think the jobs that have been cut in in this crisis which have been
07:42
things like drivers wait staff service workers of all kinds
07:46
museum staff have been particularly hard hit these are
07:50
positions that frequently creative people rely on
07:54
to support themselves and their development of their practice
07:58
and that is a terrifying number 55% report a loss in external funding and 38%
08:06
are reporting an increase in project costs and expensive
08:10
expenses so while they're seeing less money coming in they're actually having
08:14
more expenses in order to complete their work
08:19
so of the 55 percent of creators who reported loss external funding
08:25
most of those expect those losses to be really
08:28
uh substantial the majority are expecting losses of over 40%
08:33
of their current external funding for work this is again
08:36
really concerning for us um from our end you know
08:40
if a creator has run a kickstarter campaign and promised to make work to
08:43
their backers uh and they're relying on external
08:46
funding as a piece of that financing puzzle to make their work and
08:50
that's going away really such a huge cut it's gonna be really hard for
08:54
them to complete the work that they've promised to their community
09:00
so we also also asked all these creators what they want from us
09:03
and i don't think the answers here will be too surprising
09:07
uh at least they aren't surprising to us because these are things that we tend to
09:10
hear from creators but um publicity uh lower fees that we
09:14
charge five percent on all money raised on the platform
09:17
um and just help with funding those are the big three
09:20
um and for for kickstarter publicity is goes hand in hand with funding so
09:28
uh both of those all three of these from our end
09:31
point to just how
09:35
how much in need creators are for additional sources of funding and
09:39
additional support
09:42
um given that there have been so many delays um
09:46
and reports of delays amongst our creators we asked
09:49
what are things that could help accelerate their creative work
09:53
again funding is the top thing on that list time
09:57
is another big one which i don't know what we can
10:00
exactly we can do there market demand and just opportunities
10:04
uh for their work to meet an audience is just huge so those being the big
10:10
three again it's it's it goes to speaks to the financial
10:14
burden that creators are facing in this in this crisis and the challenge that
10:19
they have is their process and forms of distribution
10:22
disrupted how do you get access to that to an
10:25
audience now if normally you were you were reaching them
10:28
in a theater or through a comic book shop
10:30
or through a bookstore
10:34
as we look to the future we see a few things
10:37
one is that the devastating impact of the crisis on independent creators will
10:41
continue to have ripple effects over the next year
10:44
i think a lot of creators are going to struggle to make ends meet um
10:48
they're going to have to adapt and that's going to be
10:52
continue to be disruptive to their livelihoods and their work
10:58
um we know that creative work is being delayed
11:01
uh but we are already seeing creators adapt to the new limitations of this
11:05
uh period and the new paradigm uh we're expecting actually an expansion of
11:10
creative work in about six to 12 months as creators respond to this moment
11:16
there's so much happening in uh in our society and culture at the
11:20
moment not just covid but the social unrest we're experiencing i have
11:24
helicopters hovering over my apartment at the moment
11:28
as i record this and we're already seeing creators
11:32
wanting to respond to the moment um and historically
11:35
throughout american history you know moments like this have uh
11:39
generated quite quite a bit of creative work
11:44
and finally we know that creators will need significant support they're going
11:47
to need increased opportunities for unrestricted funding the unrestricted
11:52
there is very important they're going to need new methods for
11:54
creating given the the concerns around covid 19 if that
12:00
if the restrictions here continue or we're moving in and out of quarantine
12:04
um we're going to find new ways to help creators make things
12:08
and give them new avenues to find their audience and connect with them and share
12:11
work because as we've seen venues shutting
12:15
down space is closing we have to find new
12:19
ways to support creators as they make work in this environment
12:24
so the opportunities that we see for ourselves and for organizations that are
12:27
also thinking about supporting creators and creative work are to
12:32
find new ways to provide direct and unrestricted funding to artists
12:36
to support their lives or their work at scale
12:40
this is huge the unrestricted piece is really important
12:45
and the at-scale piece is really important so organizations like united
12:49
states artists is doing a great job of this
12:51
they have a relief fund they're doing grants i think about five
12:55
thousand dollar grants to directly to artists just to support them
12:59
during this time just to help them make ends meet
13:01
it's unrestricted it just goes in their pockets and that's such a great um
13:07
project and fund because of the scale they're operating at you know i'd much
13:12
rather see um you know a hundred artists get five
13:17
thousand dollars and five artists get a hundred thousand
13:19
dollars uh it's just so much more important to spread
13:23
um those financial resources broadly to help the creators
13:27
and communities creators because communities are so important here
13:30
get through this period in kickstarter we are
13:34
exploring partnerships with nonprofits and foundations
13:37
to spin up a fund that would do something very similar leveraging
13:41
kickstarter and our model to put money small amounts
13:46
of money into campaigns across our platform to help creators
13:51
raise money through kickstarter give them a boost and
13:54
put a spotlight on their work
13:59
we know communities want to help save the creative work and spaces that matter
14:02
to them both the local community local
14:06
communities and communities of interest of fans
14:09
of work so it's on us the organizations that support those
14:15
creators to provide dignified opportunities for them
14:18
to get support from community networks that dignified
14:22
piece is really important i think one that has we know a lot of creators
14:26
have struggled with during this period as
14:29
gofundme type campaigns which are really like charity
14:33
um you know support us with nothing in return sort of holding
14:38
out your hat has been really difficult for a lot of creators
14:41
who don't feel comfortable with that mechanism of support and mechanism of
14:45
giving so we've done we've launched initiatives
14:48
to help organizations sort of fundraise but
14:52
putting a focus on their work and the creative aspects of their work rather
14:56
than the need aspect of the moment and i
15:00
think um anyone any organization within the
15:04
space needs to really understand how they're providing
15:06
a dignified method of support for these creators
15:13
and finally just a note here that uh creative work that brings
15:18
small groups together either online or in person is
15:21
uh really powerful right now tabletop games is exploding on the platform or
15:26
seeing interactive online theater starting to spin up watch parties for
15:29
films finding ways to build these kinds of
15:33
practices into your support for artists and
15:37
helping them think through what their strategy is in
15:39
this moment can be really helpful so finding creators are leveraging the
15:44
moment the way behaviors are changing amongst people
15:47
and the way that they're consuming content and connecting with each other
15:50
is really smart um so i'd encourage anyone's working with
15:54
artists to consider that as well um thank you that's it for me hopefully
15:59
this is under time uh i look forward to discussing all of these more
16:02
with you in the panel uh during the conference
16:05
and thank you very much for listening
Description of the video:
00:00
hello my name is Amaka Agbo and i am the founder and principal of Nwamaka Agbo
00:06
consulting I use restorative economics as the framework to inform my consulting
00:12
practice and based in the Bay Area Oakland California and I come from a
00:16
longtime social and racial justice organizing background I came to the work
00:20
of the restorative economics over the past few years namely coming out of the
00:26
last economic recession 2012 I would say was right about the time we
00:31
started to observe social movements in 501 C 3 organizations starting to
00:37
experience the delayed impacts of the 2008 recession and so I spent some time
00:42
really trying to understand what was going on with our economy and therefore
00:47
what did it mean for foundation starting to actually shift change their ways of
00:52
giving and then the negative impacts that this had on social movements and
00:56
organizations like the one I was a part of through this process I started to
01:01
learn a lot more about to the interconnection of economy capital
01:05
government and systems and really started to wrestle with the large
01:08
questions of what are the resources what are the skills and the capacities the
01:14
communities need in order to be able to develop their neighborhoods their
01:19
communities in their own image and being able to really exercise collective
01:24
determination and agency over how they want to live work and play with one
01:29
another close together so with my work on restorative economics I provide
01:35
project management support to community owned and governed projects which I'll
01:39
talk about a bit more and I also spend time advising donors investors financial
01:45
institutions on how they can move their resources in mission aligned ways and so
01:51
really ensuring that they're activating all of their resources financial and
01:54
non-financial to really help reinvest those resources back into those
01:59
communities that have been most disproportionately impacted by harmful
02:03
economic practices as a way of helping to rebuild them and as a way of helping
02:07
to ensure that they their they have the resources that they need to actually
02:12
help create a more equitable economy going forward
02:18
the global pandemic has definitely laid bare a lot of the systemic and justices
02:24
that many of us are aware of in the actual meaning of the word apocalypse
02:30
right is a great revealing a great uncovering and and I would offer that
02:36
the Covid 19 global pandemic is revealed a lot of the weaknesses the flaws and
02:41
the failures of our federal government of our education systems of our public
02:47
health systems even our food systems and being able to support the needs of those
02:52
that are most vulnerable and need them the most
02:55
it's also really lifted up the fact that the racial wealth divide as we
03:00
oftentimes talk about it in rhetoric it's not just a crack right it's a
03:04
gaping hole a chasm and it's actually a cliff the rich majority of Americans
03:09
have actually fallen off of particularly black and brown low-income marginalized
03:15
communities and so for me the work is really trying to figure out what are the
03:20
strategies that not only help to close that racial wealth divide but ensure
03:25
that we're closing it in a way that we're starting to move out of a system
03:28
that privileges the haves and hurts the have-nots and actually starting to
03:33
create an economic system that's rooted in shared prosperity the other piece of
03:39
what we're experiencing right now over the past couple of weeks and most
03:43
recently over this past weekend we started to experience and witness a lot
03:48
of uprisings across the country in response to the murder of George Floyd
03:53
of Brianna Taylor of Ahmaud Arbery and there's so many more I think this moment
04:00
is also revealing how it's not just our economy that's designed to
04:05
disproportionately hurt and impact those communities but it's also revealing the
04:09
collective anger the hurt the pain and the ongoing trauma that black
04:14
communities continue to experience every time we witness a death on the screen
04:18
and our inability to bring about justice means that those that are most
04:23
disproportionately impacted the same communities that are disproportionately
04:27
impacted by COVID 19 being the same communities that are impacted by
04:31
police brutality are starting to rise up and starting to demand a fix to the
04:36
systems that have hurt and harmed them for so many decades and centuries I
04:43
think the other thing that's worth noting in this moment is that all the
04:48
various systems that govern our way of life here in the global North and
04:53
Western countries they're actually operating exactly as they're supposed to
04:58
be if anything what we're starting to witness is the fact that there are
05:03
negative externalities that for so often we've been able to invisiblize we've
05:09
been able to kind of fall off of the news media and now we're actually
05:14
starting to see what those negative externalities look like and how they
05:18
continue to privilege a few wealthy white minority and hurt the majority of
05:24
us so to start us off we do a little screen share
05:36
one of the things that I think the global pandemic is really lifting up as
05:41
well is this piece around how our economy is designed to extract natural
05:47
resources the extraction of natural resources is what has actually led to
05:52
climate change and what has led to humans living in such close proximity
05:56
with wildlife that would then allow a virus like COVID 19 to proliferate around
06:03
the world the other thing that's really becoming clear is that our ongoing
06:07
exploitation of labor right now as we talk about essential workers and
06:12
essential businesses it's evident that the majority of essential workers are
06:17
made up of working women of color and these are low wage workers low wage
06:22
workers who are not being compensated in a way that actually reflects our
06:27
understanding that they are essential in fact the way that we compensate them the
06:32
way that we treat them and disregard them is saying that you're actually
06:35
expendable we also continue to have an economic system that focuses in on
06:42
consolidating control and power this is a system where we have in the case of a
06:49
lot of the police brutality that's happening right now we have we can see
06:54
that our systems are designed to protect property over people that we have a
07:00
justice system that is actually not willing to hold police accountable when
07:05
they exert or use their power and so the questions of how do we also start to
07:10
bring our power back into the control of the people and then also the
07:16
accumulation of wealth and the last two months on many of us have either been on
07:20
the front lines of essential workers or have been sheltering in place the
07:25
richest 1% of the United States the billionaires have amassed over four
07:29
hundred thirty four billion dollars over the last two months
07:34
and this is happening while a number of Americans a record number of Americans
07:38
are filing for unemployment so to just being able to look at the disparities of
07:44
how our systems continue to privilege a few and hurt the many and then really
07:50
lifting up this piece of exclusion we continue to have systems and have an
07:54
economic system that only that excludes many of us from being able to
07:59
participate in so many of the benefits that our economy has to offer
08:04
and so there's an opportunity for us to start thinking about how do we move
08:08
towards an economic system that's rooted in regeneration a system that is
08:13
actually focused in on governing for the common good how do we lift up shared
08:17
prosperity as a way of being and then start to move towards inclusion start to
08:22
ensure that we're sharing I'm all that our economy has to offer with all those
08:26
that need it
08:30
and so my work on restorative economics I think it's helpful to kind of spend
08:37
some time redefining economy I found this extremely helpful for me because
08:41
often times when I think of economy when I you know I was studying my graduate
08:48
school 101 economics I'm my no sharad economy fully centered on dollars and
08:53
cents I would think about elasticity I would think about import-export taxes
08:58
and what an organization a movement generation has really lifted up for me
09:04
is that the meaning of the word economies actually the management of
09:08
home and so when I think about the management of my home I think about the
09:14
culture and tradition of my household I am Nigerian my partner is Japanese in
09:19
Greek I think about our health and well-being I think about what does it
09:23
actually take for that space to feel sacred and whole and so we could
09:27
actually expand this definition of economy the management of home to think
09:31
about our collective home and I raised this point because I think the moment
09:37
that we're in right now is an invitation to start thinking about how do we
09:41
ultimately redefine economy how do we rather than moving towards reopening the
09:49
country and going back to the same systems that got us here what are the
09:53
interventions that we need to start to make to actually ensure that we're
09:56
creating an economic system that is rooted in our collective well-being
10:02
and so to do that my work around restorative economics calls us into
10:07
really recognizing that at first there is there is the need to repair a
10:15
significant amount of harm that's been done to black indigenous and communities
10:19
of color and so let me think about the economy
10:21
that we're trying to transition to we can't just kind of leapfrog over that
10:26
gap we actually have to spend time mending that gap healing the harm to
10:31
ensure that those same communities that have been hurt harmed locked out enough
10:35
behind how the resources the tools that they need to be a part of the
10:40
conversation and actively building a more just and equitable economy going
10:45
forward so for me restorative economics is quite intentionally rooted in a
10:50
framework of reparations and repair and I think this goes hand-in-hand once
10:55
again we understand this in the context of the uprisings happening across the
11:00
country right now
11:03
and so in order to kind of guide in my work the methodology that I use is to
11:09
first spend some time figuring out how can we support projects that our
11:13
community stewarded how can we help groups of people and groups of
11:17
individuals come together to collectively own and manage an asset and
11:21
this is important because the way that we manage walked together is what allows
11:27
us to kind of transition out of a system of capitalism that's very much focused
11:31
on privileges wealth for an individual and at any and all costs and start to
11:38
actually move towards as a model a system that's focused on collective
11:42
well-being and shared prosperity I think the other piece to this is how are we
11:49
looking at who gets to make the decisions around how that asset is used
11:54
in held within our community this really strikes at the heart of governance the
11:58
work that we're set up to do and so how do we start to actually create
12:02
governance structures that Center the needs in the interests of the most
12:06
vulnerable in our community and do so in a way that we're inviting people to
12:11
collectively come together to make decisions about how to steward those
12:15
assets together for the collective good how we
12:18
make decisions is just as important as the decisions that we end up making and
12:23
part of what we need to be in is a practice of actually engaging in a
12:28
collective governance for our collective well-being and for me and my work at the
12:33
end of the day the goal is not to just have more people owning more projects
12:39
and more community assets together while I think that is a great endeavor
12:45
for me the goal is to really figure out how we're able to then leverage those
12:49
assets to those assets whether they are a building that's collectively owned by
12:53
a group of people whether we're looking at a community governed alone fund or
12:57
maybe we're looking at a community governed micro grid energy system the
13:03
fact is that when those assets are actually collectively held in the
13:06
community together we're building their political cultural and economic power to
13:11
be able to assert their right to live in their full dignity and to be able to
13:16
defend those rights on the political terrains that are critical to ensure
13:20
long term shifts in systems transformation
13:26
and so in order to move through the work as I mentioned one of the pieces being
13:31
able to really start off with a piece around acknowledging the harm that has
13:36
been done and understanding that there's particular habits and patterns
13:40
extraction exclusion and accumulation of wealth and power that got us here and so
13:45
how do we start to identify the choice points and how we actually are able to
13:50
start building and practices of regeneration governing for the whole and
13:55
inclusion and understanding that our ability to work on a project together
14:00
that is collectively owned and governed is what allows us to not only shift
14:05
culture in structures and institutions but it also allows us to be transformed
14:10
through the work as individuals because of our what requires us to show up
14:14
differently it requires us to be in deep an authentic relationship with our
14:18
colleagues and our neighbors to see the overall success of the project
14:23
then the other piece is ensuring and really starting to rethink governance
14:29
overall and so my work really tries to figure out what are the mechanisms what
14:34
are the opportunities for identifying those individuals that are most impacted
14:39
and how do we make decisions that speak to their needs they're all beings that
14:44
include their voices with the understanding that if we meet their
14:48
their basic daily needs chances are that the rest of us will be better off as
14:53
well their siblings their friends their families their neighbors and so one of
14:58
the ways I like to think about this is if we ensure that a young person has
15:03
access to three meals a day the hope is the likelihood is is that their siblings
15:09
are also eating three meals a day and not going hungry and the same with their
15:13
parents their family and their friends and so what are the things that we need
15:17
to really Center those that are most impacted around when we look at health
15:22
care when we look at education when we look at housing making decisions that
15:27
are best for the common good and lastly that the work once again is about how
15:34
are we building power and understanding that power sits in three realms cultural
15:39
power speaks to our ability to lift up the norms and the values that really
15:43
Center our commitment to collective well-being and shared prosperity
15:47
economic power looks at our ability to be able to kind of manage our
15:52
communities through our exchange of goods and services in a way that really
15:57
lifts up those those values and norms and the political power is our ability
16:02
to actually contest for power and defend those those the types of projects that
16:09
we want to see on the political terrain and that at the end of the day as we try
16:15
to move from extraction and accumulation to regeneration and redistribution we're
16:20
ultimately dealing with how do we redistribute power and being able to
16:24
understand that the social movements that are on the front lines of
16:28
contesting for power those social movements are what make it possible for
16:33
us to actually engage in those three realms of
16:36
as well and so an opportunity to figure out as we're building shared prosperity
16:41
and building community well our ability to really resource and support and be in
16:48
deep solidarity with the social movements that support our work so my
16:53
work on restorative economics calls us to be really intentional about who we
16:57
are investing in black/brown indigenous communities of color how we're investing
17:04
in them making sure that we're actually using financial and non-financial
17:07
resources in a non extractive way moving all of our resources both our grants and
17:13
our investment dollars to mission aligned strategies and then how we
17:17
invest in them starting to really look at those projects that are starting to
17:23
experiment with models of collective ownership that are starting to innovate
17:27
with different ways of making decisions and at their core are really trying to
17:31
support the broader needs of a community and not just trying to privilege a few
17:38
I think this moment of COVID 19 and the uprisings across the country and
17:44
actually around the world we've been starting to hear about solidarity
17:47
protests and Amsterdam and in Germany it's really lifting up what some would
17:52
call challenges but what I would like to lift up as opportunities and so as we
17:58
start to really watch people or states across the country start to
18:02
quote-unquote reopen the economy as people try to kind of return to once was
18:07
I think this is an opportunity to figure out what do we want to move towards and
18:12
the fact that we have a government that hasn't actually figured out how to
18:17
intervene in market forces that are more committed to kicking people out of their
18:22
homes during a moment of shelter in place and as a way of maximizing money
18:28
then it is around protecting people we have to also call into question the role
18:32
of government so there's three key things that I'm keeping my eye on right
18:37
now and exploring through my work what are those economic models and
18:42
strategies right what are the ways that people are experimenting with
18:45
cooperatives with lending circles with other ways of moving resources and
18:50
sharing assets I'm also inviting people to really
18:53
rethink and question the role of government right now we have a
18:57
government that can mobilize the National Guard in less than 24 hours but
19:01
can't mobilize personal protective equipment to support those in need
19:06
we have a government that is willing to go to war with its own people but not
19:10
willing to actually keep them healthy and safe and fed and so for me these two
19:16
interconnected problems of our economy and the role of government ultimately
19:20
amount to what will it take to create a social safety net not only how will we
19:26
resource it but how will we make the decisions around how to administer it
19:30
and and ensure that it provides for people over the long term I think the
19:36
opportunity that we're starting to see is that as groups and social movements
19:42
move to mobilize mutual aid a lot of the mutual aid networks relationship
19:47
strategies those are actually strategies not only for us to use in a moment
19:52
of rapid-response around COVID 19 but actually start to build out that
19:57
community infrastructure for how we're able to move resources quickly over the
20:02
long term we will likely need to lean on our neighbors and loved ones a lot more
20:07
and act in solidarity together in each other's best interest as we continue to
20:12
kind of weather the magnifying crises that are impacting us I think a lot of
20:17
the calls and movements for universal basic income particularly the work that
20:21
looks closely how do we ensure that black working mothers have the paychecks
20:26
that they need to also ensure that there's food on the table and that
20:30
they're able to pay rent how do we start to really lift up the the call for
20:35
hazard pay for essential workers and stop looking at essential workers as
20:39
those that only need a minimum wage low wage workers but actually are
20:44
appropriately compensated for the level for the level of risk that they take on
20:50
in a daily basis and also recognizing how those positions are
20:54
disproportionately represented by communities of color and so for me this
21:01
is all a moment for us to do some deep questioning a deep reflection and to
21:05
start to figure out what are the ways that we seed those projects on the ground
21:09
that are also starting to really lift up some alternatives that we can look
21:14
towards some of the projects that I'm really excited about um there's a
21:18
project black land empower which is a program of the national black food and
21:22
justice Alliance and black land empower brings together a set of movement
21:27
based organizations black land based institutions farmers organizers across
21:33
the country trying to really figure out how do we ensure that black people have
21:37
access to land for safe and sacred space for healing for learning for training
21:42
for being able to rest how do we retain and maintain that land and then how do
21:47
we resource it so while we're moving towards figuring out how to acquire the
21:52
land the question of also how to finance it in a non extractive way and how to
21:57
share it collectively with each other as black people but also in solidarity with
22:01
indigenous communities as well I think other projects like sea
22:06
Commons and the Boston Ujima project that are also looking at what does it
22:10
look like for communities to be able to have community governed alone funds for
22:15
there to be infrastructure where communities actually get to have a
22:18
direct say over how resources and capital is moved and invested within and
22:23
throughout their communities for me this moment is really an opportunity to take
22:30
stock of where are the openings that we can really break open how do we move
22:35
from an economic system that's very much focused in on a punitive way of raising
22:41
funds in terms of fines and fees that disproportionately impact black and
22:45
brown communities as a resource in our government and start to actually move
22:49
towards something that's focused on really supporting care for community so
22:56
all this to say I'm excited for the conversation we'll be having
22:59
I'm excited to really explore how some of the models and strategies and the
23:04
work of cultural workers are also helping us to really rethink the role of
23:08
government how we think about economy and how we bring those pieces together
23:12
for me I always really encourage people to sit with the questions of who is
23:17
getting the financial return off of any project who is making the decision and
23:22
how in the and how are those decisions being made I think the answers to those
23:27
questions are really key to ensuring that we're really invested in supporting those
23:32
communities black brown indigenous communities of color that need the
23:37
resources that they need to be able to thrive and build meaningful and
23:42
dignified livelihoods for themselves and their loved ones
Description of the video:
00:04
I can talk a little bit about this contemporary moment of COVID
00:08
We know that first
00:11
and foremost when we talk about the economy
00:14
We need to recognize that health
00:17
is a part of the economy, and it's a false
00:20
dichotomy when we say that
00:23
let's send people to work and not
00:26
as if
00:28
sending people to work and putting people at risk
00:31
if we aren't ready to go back
00:33
to work because of COVID-19
00:36
Thinking of that as a choice between having a
00:39
good economy, I think is
00:42
somewhat of a problematic framing
00:43
because mortality has to be first and foremost
00:46
the key indicator of our economic wellbeing
00:49
And if we're thinking about the economy
00:51
first and foremost we need to protect peoples' lives
00:55
And if we think about racial inequality
00:58
there are estimates that
00:59
black people are making up one third
01:02
of the COVID fatalities or more
01:05
when they make up only 14% of the population
01:08
And then we might ask, why is the black mortality rate so high?
01:12
Well, we have an unjust racial wealth gap
01:15
We have a history of
01:17
financial deprivation that has
01:20
rendered some people in America based on their
01:23
group identity more vulnerable to deal with
01:26
economic downtrend
01:29
when they won't have the
01:31
flexibility to work at home
01:33
they have lower wages and benefits overall
01:37
and it renders them more economically insecure
01:42
I think that with the context of COVID-19
01:46
a potential positive thing could be it spurs
01:50
political action and social movement
01:53
to implement a lot of the
01:55
political and economic change we've been talking about
01:58
In other words, if the vulnerability
02:01
made vivid by COVID-19
02:04
can lead to political change towards and economic
02:06
rights frame
02:07
and we can stave off
02:10
inequality and promote a moral
02:13
and just economy
02:15
so that we can have shared
02:17
prosperity in both economic and physical
02:20
wellbeing and to achieve that
02:23
I argue that we need an anti-racist
02:26
anti-misogynist
02:29
inclusive economic bill of right frame
02:32
so that we can be better prepared for when there's a next pandemic
02:35
or there's a next climate-related catastrophe
02:38
and not only that it would
02:40
address our everyday vulnerabilities
02:43
that many people live with whether or not we're in a pandemic
02:47
An economically just system is one where everyone
02:50
has access to an adequate amount of resources
02:53
of essential goods and services
02:56
so that they can have agency in their lives
02:59
COVID-19 has made it clear that
03:02
even the most affluent amongst us are vulnerable
03:05
I mean we know the case of even
03:08
a prime minister, Boris Johnson
03:11
in the UK
03:14
was subject to the coronavirus
03:16
but when this
03:18
subsides hopefully we will ensure that no one
03:21
lives with this despair and vulnerability
03:23
again regardless of whether we're in an economic crisis
03:26
I hope that it also teaches us to take steps
03:29
where we can put in place
03:33
an infrastructure to make the population
03:36
identified as something as cursory as their race
03:38
or gender not so vulnerable
03:41
Inequality is a political choice
03:44
and we can make a different choice
03:47
We have an inadequate social safety net system
03:50
for the last 45 years as a result of
03:54
what I believe policies around deregulation
03:57
gutting government social services
03:59
as well as social wellfare
04:03
we ended up not just in the United States
04:06
but across the globe environments of
04:08
reinforcing inequality and obstacles
04:11
social mobility and political inclusion
04:14
In fact we would have to reach back to the greatest generation
04:17
a generation born nearly
04:19
a hundred years ago who entered their young adulthood
04:22
right after the great depression
04:26
to find a generation with
04:28
lower home ownership rate
04:30
than young adult millenials have today
04:33
and what's even more disheartening
04:35
is that the racial gap in home ownership
04:38
amongst millenials
04:39
is as large as it's ever been for any generation
04:43
since we've been tracking home ownership
04:46
In 2013, I delivered a Ted Talk
04:49
I began by stating quote,
04:52
"That there is a narrative, an idea that with
04:55
resilience, grit, and personal responsibility
04:58
people can pull themselves up
05:00
and achieve success
05:02
This is what we call the American dream
05:06
This political discourse, it's upheld in
05:09
a bipartisan way, Democrats and
05:12
Republicans, across racial groups
05:14
blacks and whites alike they all
05:17
adhere to this discourse, basically
05:20
it goes if black, brown, and poor people
05:23
if they would simply reverse
05:25
their self-sabotaging attitudes, behaviors
05:29
and adopt the "right" attitudes,
05:31
norms, and behaviors
05:34
that that would be the pathway towards equality
05:36
But what's missing in that narrative
05:38
is all the cases of these individuals
05:41
black, poor, or whatever who also exemplify
05:44
perseverance, grit, and hardwork
05:47
but aren't able to attain successful economic outcomes
05:51
What has been glaringly missing from this narrative
05:53
is the role of power,
05:56
the role of capital, the role of endowment
05:59
and how having those resources in the first place
06:02
can influence the structures and transactions
06:05
by which people engage
06:08
Power and capital are self-reinforcing
06:11
without any intervention
06:13
and they will do what they do best
06:16
iterate and concentrate
06:18
we use words like choice,
06:22
freedom to describe what we believe is the benefit
06:25
of unfettered government
06:28
not intervening in our systems but all that is an
06:31
illusion, if people lack
06:34
the basic needs of a job
06:37
of adequate income of shelter of food
06:40
of healthcare, it is literally
06:43
wealth that gives us choice
06:45
that gives us freedom and gives us optionality
06:48
if you are an essential worker
06:51
with a preexisting condition
06:54
if you have wealth you can make a decision
06:57
to say I'm not going to put myself at risk
07:00
if you are displaced from your job and you have wealth
07:03
you have the ability to withstand
07:06
that economic calamity
07:10
Public policy should
07:13
empower all people to live dignified lives
07:16
and shield vulnerable populations
07:19
from predatory actors with self-interested goals
07:21
aimed at extracting and exploiting them
07:25
There are a set of enabling goods and services
07:28
that are so critical for our life, our liberty
07:31
and our self-determination
07:34
their quantity and quality
07:36
access to these should not be based solely
07:40
on one's ability to pay we need
07:42
policies that ensure universal
07:45
and quality healthcare, housing, schooling,
07:48
financial services, capital
07:51
and the free mobility throughout society
07:54
without the psychological and physical threat
07:58
of the tension or bodily harm
08:00
because your identity is linked to
08:03
race, gender, or some other cursory identity
08:07
And given our emerging inequality and political context
08:10
now is the time to do more
08:13
the time has come for us to be bold
08:16
the time has come for us to be transformative
08:19
to take the problems of inequality and stratification
08:22
take them head on the good news is this
08:25
change may be happening I'm inspired
08:27
by younger generations, they're leading this charge for change
08:31
there's black lives matter
08:33
there's the #metoo movement
08:35
and the recent youth inspired global climate strike
08:39
demanding the end of the use of fossil fuels
08:41
these are all examples of how younger generations
08:44
and social movements
08:47
they're redefining economic good to incorporate the principles
08:50
of our common humanity
08:53
of sustainability
08:55
and our shared prosperity
08:57
I'm gonna end by returning to the narrative and ethos of the American dream
09:02
and I'm gonna cite
09:04
one of my favorite basketball players Lebron James
09:09
In January, in a Nike commercial
09:11
he succinctly and eloquently sums up
09:15
a perfect aspiration of what
09:18
the foundation of an American dream
09:21
should and can be from my perspective
09:23
he said, "we always here
09:26
about an athlete's humble beginning, how they emerge
09:29
from poverty or tragedy
09:32
and beat the odds"
09:34
and then the video goes in and shows
09:36
a lot of rags to riches stories of people
09:39
overcoming poverty with
09:43
a great talent that allowed them fame and fortune
09:46
and those are good stories and I don't mean to denegrate them in any way
09:52
but Lebron James goes on and says,
09:55
"there supposed to be stories of determination
09:59
that capture the dream
10:01
there's supposed to be stories that let you know
10:04
that people are special"
10:06
then there's a pause and he says,
10:08
"but you know what would be really special?
10:11
if there were no more humble beginnings"
10:14
thank you
Panel Presentations
Description of the video:
00:04
[Doug] it's great to have you all here we're going to go around the virtual room or the
00:10
virtual round table and do some quick introduction so I'll introduce each you
00:14
by name and then you can you can take the mic and introduce yourself quick
00:19
title and then we'll go around the room that way and then we'll start right into
00:22
this so let's start off with making sure all right so I'm gonna start out
00:28
introducing Lucy Bernholz [Lucy] Hi I am Lucy Bernholz I'm delighted to be here
00:34
this morning with you for this conversation I'm the director of the
00:37
digital civil society lab at Stanford [Doug] perfect thank you, Linda Essig [Linda] good morning my name is Linda
00:44
Essig I'm here at the sunset of Los Angeles on the unseated land of the
00:49
Tonga people, I'm the Dean of the College of Arts and Letters at Cal State
00:53
University Los Angeles
00:55
[Doug] very good, and over to you Bamuthi
00:58
[Bamuthi] hey peace my name is Marc Bamuthi Joseph I'm originally
01:04
from New York live in the Bay Area work in DC I'm the vice president and
01:10
artistic director of social impact at the Kennedy Center
01:14
[Doug] thank you, Sunil Iyengar
01:16
[Sunil] yes hi this is Sunil Iyengar director of research and analysis of national
01:20
down for the arts very pleased to be here we're a proud co-sponsor of the
01:24
National Endowment for the Arts Research lab here
01:27
[Doug] yes thank you and last we'll go over to Jon Leland
01:31
[Jon] hi I'm very happy to be here I'm the vice president of insights at Kickstarter
01:36
[Doug] wonderful well this is an exciting panel for me it's a great way
01:40
to start off our day and I want to put a prompt question out to all of you
01:44
so in her presentation Lucy talked about the importance of first principles and
01:48
thinking about our systems she pressed us to push beyond ever the mushrooms that
01:53
are just on the surface and look beneath an example in the soil underneath I'd
01:58
like to you to go like to go around from the panel here and ask in light of the
02:02
recent crises we're facing what are the first principles that you think are most
02:06
important for us to be keeping in mind here maybe let's start with Linda
02:11
[Linda] okay thank you well before I answer the question about the first principles I
02:16
really want to thank Doug and Joanna for the opportunity to share my thoughts
02:19
with the esteemed panelists and with the many others watching I also want to
02:24
thank Indiana University for allowing me to defer its modest honorarium to an
02:28
artist in need rather than accepting it myself and I'm not sharing this to
02:32
highlight my own righteousness but because her story is emblematic of what
02:36
working artists especially working artists who serve communities of color
02:40
are facing right now in the world of Covid 19, Martha Carrillo is part of the
02:45
self-help graphics and art census ... working toward a full count of
02:49
all of the residents of East LA as well as under different circumstances a
02:54
resident artist with their barrio mobile art studio she lost that contract work
02:59
as a result of the pandemic as did many artists around the country so I'll come
03:05
back to that but first principles so I'm hoping you'll allow me to have to first
03:09
principles the soil in which we work and I want to share my observations of them
03:14
the first is the free market economy as a first principle and the neoliberal
03:19
version of it that we've lived in since 1980 is the soil I really love Lucy's
03:25
metaphor but it's a soil that does not really provide the nourishment we need
03:30
as a nation it's a soil that's proven to be completely inadequate to the task of
03:35
nourishing us during this time of crisis as a system it is inadequate to the task
03:39
of producing and distributing necessary goods equitably in a time of crisis the
03:45
free market as the first principle has not provided masks or testing kits or
03:50
even toilet paper efficiently and I would add that the the current regime's
03:55
responses to black lives matter protests and a note to my colleague Tyler Cowen
04:00
is speaking later these are protests they are not riots or that response is
04:06
also one of the mushrooms that grows out of this sick soil in that it favors
04:11
property rights over human rights and as Marc Bamuthi points out there is a
04:16
tension between public good and private wealth and that free market soil really
04:21
helps the latter to grow but often at the expense of the former so that's kind
04:26
of the sick soil but the the healthy first principle is community level an
04:31
individual action that we really see matter for
04:35
community well-being right now whether it's our neighbors feeding neighbors or
04:39
people in a cafe deciding whether or not to wear a mask individual actions in
04:44
community and neighborhood settings have literal life-and-death consequences so
04:49
we really need to look to community action during this time of crisis in
04:53
which I learned from Amaka Agbo presentation is it's called restorative
04:57
economics a term that I have I really love so um this raises a whole bunch of
05:02
questions for me but I'll I'll shut up now and let someone else have a chance
05:05
for a change thanks
05:07
[Doug] it's a great place to start with
05:08
lots of questions and it's a good transition I think over to mark them
05:11
with you for some your thoughts on first principles here
05:16
[Bamuthi] yeah that's hard because Linda did it I feel like we can all go home now it's
05:22
it's true the first principle is the relationship between the structural
05:26
economy and the moral economy it's it's really hard to move outside of that and
05:32
or to for me to think beyond that because it literally is the root of evil
05:37
in this country and as we are out in the streets protesting and beginning to
05:44
articulate notions of anti-racist systems necessarily we connect anti
05:50
racism and anti capitalism and if not anti capitalism at the very least contra
05:58
capitalism if we were to take an incremental step so it's it's hard for
06:02
me to really think beyond that as a first principle because it really is the
06:06
the root of division and social hierarchy here access to resources I do
06:14
think that the collective psychology as a post Covid response and principle the
06:22
nurturing of the collective psychology by reimagining what constitutes beauty
06:29
and health in terms of the public imagination is another principle that we
06:35
might look to and by beauty and health I don't just mean aesthetics I
06:41
mean the cultivation of narratives that embed us in an interdependent notion of
06:48
our and and maybe a more liberal understanding of our collective humanity
06:53
a greater empathy working in the arts sector as a poet as a practicing artist
07:01
and and having institutional grounding at the Kennedy Center among other
07:07
institutions I note whose stories are on stage whose stories are on screen what
07:15
gets propagated as norm or normal and this works across demographic
07:21
classification gender expression sexuality
07:26
physical capacity and physical capital so the the diversification and the
07:33
propagation of stories that uplift a more collective and democratic
07:42
understanding of beauty married to a relationship a further evolution of the
07:50
relationship between the structural economy and the moral economy is what I
07:54
propose as a as an additional principle
07:58
[Doug] that's great
07:59
Sunil your thoughts on sort of first principles it
08:03
[Sunil] thank you yes and thanks to Lucy for raising that as the frame for this I
08:08
think that's a really helpful way to think about what we have to do now I
08:11
think there in my I think I often think of to kind of first principles that
08:16
maybe collide and intersect you know lately I've been reading over the last
08:21
couple weeks over the statement you know what we see on coins the motto
08:25
e pluribus unum which you know essentially means out of the many the one and I
08:30
think what I'm talking about here is reconciling individual expression you
08:34
know the need for individual agency and voice with that of a group and really
08:39
good being larger in being part of something larger than ourselves and
08:43
being part of you know having feeling less alone and I think that's what the
08:48
arts at least historically and what especially now are showing themselves
08:51
capable of doing make bridging that and so for individuals we know and this is
08:56
from research of course we know a lot about the arts ability through the
09:00
creative arts therapies through arts education studio art studies of studio
09:05
arts or even jazz improvisation we've seen how it improves self efficacy it
09:09
gives perspective taking it really sort of shores up the individual and kind of
09:14
elevates the individual voice and agency as I said and provides clarity but then
09:18
on the other side we also see for the social benefits the community wide
09:21
benefits I think you know we all agree probably the arts are inherently social
09:24
our data have shown eighty percent of people who go to an arts event did so
09:29
because they wanted to be with family and friends 60 percent of people who
09:33
perform the music dance or not necessarily formally perform dance music
09:37
or theater did so to be with same people and more than 50% of
09:42
people who make art work you know arts and crafts for example did so for people
09:46
they personally know and I say that because you know that suggests this deep
09:50
community bonding element which we're finding now and especially now since
09:54
we're spending so much time in virtual spaces it's really critical to the arts
09:58
I'll end by saying there's recently a study by the Knight Foundation
10:02
commissioned some work on this they looked at about eleven thousand adults
10:05
across 26 cities and he saw their residents who had access to the arts as
10:10
perceived themselves as having access to arts and cultural activities showed far
10:14
greater attachment and investment in their communities and yet we know from
10:18
our own data that 35% of people out there say they don't have access to arts
10:23
and cultural amenities and resources and that's often emerges as a key barrier
10:29
for why people don't engage in the arts they don't have someone to go with for
10:32
example and or it's difficult to get to the physical location so I'm kind of
10:36
throwing all these data points is to point out that I think there's that
10:38
individual and collective benefit which are really part of core the part of the
10:43
first principle [Doug] great well thanks for that perspective it's nice mixing this
10:48
up a bit it's a good segue over to Jon if we think about some of these virtual
10:52
spaces and access so your thoughts on first principles Jon [Jon] thank you and
10:58
thank you the other speakers man this is a this has been a beautiful conversation
11:02
so far the I'll just mention what the first principles of Kickstarter are
11:06
which I don't think we've talked about publicly before and you're going to use
11:11
the language here but this is what the this is what our first principles are as
11:14
written our fuck the mono culture and art and creative expression are
11:19
essential right and there is a there is a really interesting tension here
11:24
between having a shared value of fuck the mono culture and actually fostering
11:29
that and I think you know as we look at this current moment you know what
11:34
Bamuthi sort of talked about in terms of reimagining notions of beauty and health
11:38
like what are the narratives we live by what are the narratives and whose
11:42
narratives do we listen to and doing value in our
11:45
society I think we go through periods where we've seen the sort
11:52
of the culture kind of solidify in some
11:55
respects though who were evaluate you can we listen to and the internet you
12:02
know done well it often that's been doing well but done well breaks open the
12:07
possibility for new voices new forms of expression and new speakers of that
12:14
expression into our lives it's the responsibility the platforms that hosts
12:19
that work though and invited onto their platforms to be really stewards of that
12:24
public space and of those values to try to connect those voices and allow for
12:29
them to emerge with audiences that can hear them [Doug] very interesting all right
12:35
well in a way Lucy you had the first word in this with your pre-recorded
12:40
remarks and so if maybe it's only fitting that we go around the circle at
12:43
least as it appears on my screen and give you your thoughts on this [Lucy] well I
12:47
mean I thank you and thanks to all the panelists that is already there's no
12:55
doubt that this group is inspired and and more thoughtful on this than I am I
13:02
don't want to was just a metaphor but I think that the other two really first
13:09
human principles that I have been thinking about a lot in my work are I
13:17
guess I would call them mutualism and
13:23
pluralism that that we have this innate desire to gather together to do things
13:29
together we are not are it's not just artists who are social although I
13:34
absolutely agree humans are social we we gather we have I think an innate desire
13:41
I'm not a biologist but there are plenty of them who've studied this and then I
13:47
think there's also this in the creation of mutuality and the living and
13:53
mutuality and the grouping of it we create groups that have ins and outs
13:58
there are always in and out groups or people who are in or out of the groups
14:03
and and maybe this you know that's what we're struggling with at all
14:07
times I absolutely agree with the statements about the the nature of
14:13
capitalism and the way it has set us up so that this moment is almost inevitable
14:24
but I also think the other the other I guess first principle about humans about
14:32
people that I take great inspiration from is the imaginary if you read black
14:40
liberation theory or afrofuturism the this moments is what a privilege to be
14:50
part of what it what an extraordinary opportunity so I think I guess the three
14:56
I'd add there our mutualism, imaginary, and pluralism and they're and they're
15:01
much more human centered than system centered principles because the panel
15:07
did such a great job on the system [Doug] well thank you so I think building out of
15:15
those we've each identified some of these first principles or major
15:19
priorities and I think embedded in most of those explicitly is that the current
15:25
systems aren't either are either a bit toxic or aren't handling or addressing
15:31
these first principles as well as we'd like them to so the next question I want
15:36
to throw out to the group is what kind of systems or structures do you think we
15:41
need to put into place in response to the first principles that you've
15:46
identified and for this I'm going to experiment and not go in a pre
15:52
structured sequence I'm gonna let you each decide who if we can pull this off
15:57
what order we go in so feel free to jump in at this point
16:04
[Sunil] I think probably other panelists can speak to more tangible
16:14
solutions from their perspective as practitioners or working artists but I
16:18
think what was said earlier about laying bare how vulnerable individual artists
16:24
are and recognizing and finding a way to solve that problem I know that with the
16:30
Cares Act implementation a grants that for example the National Endowment for the Arts
16:34
is supporting we're really after supporting jobs and hires as well as
16:38
providing space for artists and arts organizations but you know you look at
16:42
the data just coming in and this is from last week it turns out that you know
16:46
just the Performing Arts industry alone has lost about forty eight percent
16:49
employment forty eight percent but you know just from March to April for small
16:54
businesses especially and I think if we think of the artists in a sense as small
16:58
business owners we have to fit into that capitalist frame for policy purposes you
17:03
know we recognize that you know artists are essentially hurting the most among
17:07
except for maybe accommodate hotel transportation kinds of workers when you
17:12
look at industry statistics from small business surveys it's been going out
17:16
seventy-one percent see a large negative effect from this and are experiencing it
17:20
right now versus like forty three percent for small businesses as a whole
17:23
I say all that because we've only now begun to understanding quantify what
17:27
arts workers as freelance workers for example freelance artists as very small
17:32
businesses contribute to the economy we now know they contribute a very high
17:36
share like about twenty percent of what the top twelve arts industries give to
17:41
the total economy now that's just one lens and so again I can't be
17:44
prescriptive here but I like what Lucy said about imagination and maybe that
17:48
can get us out of this with scenario planning and thinking about these these
17:52
stark disparities and how do we resolve them through this [Lucy] can I jump in on
18:00
I think imagination here is absolutely necessary but I was really struck in
18:08
Bamuthi remarks about some of it the possibility of repurposing physical
18:15
space for example when I heard that I just thought bingo you know and and
18:22
there's a there's an e in talking about institutions it sort of were used to
18:27
looking at physical assets like that and I absolutely agree there's a possibility
18:31
there and what an opportunity to step into some of these ideas about joint
18:36
ownership mutual mutual cooperativism of the ownership of those assets but also
18:42
the governance of these resources right there is a real opportunity to not just
18:48
repurpose the physical assets but allow a whole new healthier ... ecosystem
18:55
of joint responsibility to flourish and I'm sure this is actually already
19:02
happening I don't doubt for a second that there are communities around the
19:07
country no doubt with artists involved that are beginning to do this so I think
19:14
that's an enormous opportunity there's also you know there's with all of the
19:19
the digital infrastructure and the digitization of our culture that was in
19:25
in place our place prior to this year there's an enormous amount of inquiry
19:34
and experimentation with joint ownership of digital resources as well and we're
19:40
experiencing and I'm sorry my historian brain always goes back to that rhythm of
19:44
the past but mutual ownership the Commons what a great moment to take
19:53
those ideas and really put them into into action [Doug] Linda [Linda] yeah I think just on
20:03
both of those points there's sort of this immediate action that can be taken
20:08
and I think this repurposing of spaces is is one of those but I
20:14
we have to look a little more long-term and we have an opportunity to imagine
20:18
some some longer-term kinds of structures I mean I think I don't think
20:25
anyone would argue maybe they would that that many of our organizations are by
20:30
design set up to maintain a certain status quo and we might want to think
20:36
about different kinds of organizational structures that are more responsive that
20:41
are more project oriented that have more Commons base to use Lucy's term funding
20:48
kinds of models I mean I think we really we're at a turning point here and yeah
20:54
I'll stop there Thanks [Bamuthi] yeah yeah I'd like to hop in and echo the the
21:05
Kickstarter the foundational principle of you know fuck the monoculture because
21:13
you know nature loves diversity and there is such a thing as cultural
21:19
biodiversity this this kind of diverse a diversification of of narrative and
21:25
access to to narrative and I think so much follows from that the the
21:30
relationship between the creative and the environmental the relationship
21:35
between the the narrative and you know the the physical asset of the planet and
21:42
systems that center or an economy that that really centers a kind
21:46
of sustainability and interdependence but I with some apologies to Sunil I
21:54
think that the I would like to see an additional federal agency
22:00
I guess not apology just adding on to I would like to see an additional
22:05
federal agency I'd like to see a National Endowment for some some kind of
22:12
federally supported or federally sanctioned Department of inspiration and
22:20
there was a case a few years ago these kids in Detroit at Detroit's worse
22:26
performing high schools sued the government of Michigan because they
22:31
claimed that their Fourteenth Amendment rights their Fourteenth Amendment rights
22:35
were being violated they charged that under the Fourteenth Amendment they had
22:40
a right to literacy and I found this so moving because you know coming from a
22:47
people whose literacy was illegal for the better part of the country's history
22:56
well I'm certainly pre its founding and through the majority of its history I I
23:03
thought that that was such a compelling and robust notion that in order to have
23:11
access to the franchise you also have actually have access to letters to
23:16
communication to so that to me opens up a whole a really beautiful and
23:23
provocative prompt for all of us do you also have the right to clean air do you
23:31
also have the right to water if we look at Flint not too far away from from
23:37
Detroit not just their human rights are are the constitutional rights of the the
23:44
residents of Flint Michigan are those being violated because of the lack of
23:50
access yes the right to health care all these things so now working at a quasi
23:57
federal organization is certainly one that receives a healthy amount of
24:04
government support as a living memorial to the 35th President John F Kennedy
24:09
I've kind of transposed that original prompt to think about inspiration for
24:17
all as a democratic small D ideal that we can build systems around so when
24:24
folks asked me well what is social impact within the context of an Art
24:29
Center that's often what I say that inspiration itself is a democratic right
24:36
and if we were to build systems not just in terms of them
24:39
manufacture of art but to secure for our country's citizens the right to
24:46
inspiration systemically I think we'd be a lot better off [Doug] yeah lets move over to Jon
24:57
[Jon] yeah I think from my vantage point speaking more practically about just the
25:02
going back to the platform cooperative type model that's something that we
25:08
certainly have been looking at and I think is kind of a moral imperative from
25:12
the digital space because there's really no good reason why
25:16
Spotify should be owned by a giant corporation shareholders when musicians
25:21
are living so tenuously and barely able to make a living like you that these are
25:26
the artists that are like hurting the most in the current crisis that have
25:29
obviously been the most vulnerable and we the Internet provides such a great
25:36
opportunity to reimagine the structures reorganize ourselves at scale and very
25:40
very efficient ways and we haven't really managed to create new like
25:47
vibrant large-scale kind of capitalist structures through the internet we just
25:53
took the old system of capital aggregation funneled it into this thing
25:57
and then blew up a bunch of companies right and so I think from our
26:02
perspective the hope is that we actually can lean into that possibility there's
26:07
there's nascent platforms like like Ampled which is a platform cooperative
26:13
that's trying to spin up kind of like a patreon type model but is a platform
26:16
cooperative where the creators on that platform own the platform unlike patreon
26:20
which is owned by venture capitalists Kickstarter we are a not owned by
26:25
venture capitalists we're a small private company we're a public benefit
26:28
corporation but this is something we've explored where small companies also
26:32
really hard to make this change you know this is very complicated but something
26:35
that we're interested in trying to figure out how to do but that should be
26:39
the future that we're we're building towards actually isn't the
26:42
infrastructure to build towards that future right so companies like Ampled
26:46
really struggle because it's you know it takes a lot of capital to hire engineers
26:49
to build a platform that your voice is so much smaller going
26:53
against a publicly traded company like Spotify or a company patreon has
27:01
hundreds of millions of dollars in venture capital those there's no support
27:06
structure for companies like that we have to think about what is what is the
27:09
alternative financial capital structure that can create platforms like that and
27:16
make them successful kind of to deconstruct the existing model [Linda] if I can
27:23
just jump in for a second that's why I started where I did and to use continued
27:28
lucy's metaphor which I really love you know I spent a lot of time in the last
27:32
15 years teaching artists to kind of work within a system that doesn't work
27:37
for them and Kickstarter is kind of a mushroom that really helped help those
27:42
artists and and other and patreon and things like that but they're mushrooms
27:46
they're still mushrooms in this soil that needs to change so instead I'm just
27:52
wondering if there's a way instead of us teaching artists to behave differently
27:56
within a system that doesn't work for them to instead change the system so it
28:02
works for artists and all the other people so yeah
28:08
thumbs up [Doug] yeah I don't know if they get to see the thumbs up in live streaming
28:14
huh so actually I want to bounce it right back to you then Linda because you
28:18
know if someone who works with arts entrepreneurs for a long time I'm
28:22
curious to hear your perspectives on what some of the new challenges there's
28:26
obviously a mismatch working in a system that isn't working for them kind of
28:31
thing but that's not necessarily new what do you think are some of the new
28:34
challenges and opportunities facing arts entrepreneurs [Linda] yeah I've been thinking
28:40
about that and one of the things I'm writing about now on my own until it
28:46
sees the light of day is is how to help artists connect their work directly with
28:52
their communities without necessarily having to go through large
28:58
organizational structures to do that it's challenging but it is also an
29:02
opportunity I think the number one opportunity is to make work that speaks
29:06
to our current moment right I mean that's artists make work right and I
29:11
love I love my Bamuthi poem at the beginning of his of his talk it was so
29:17
well it was art right so we need to figure out a way to help artists make
29:23
art and yeah I mean that's the opportunity and that's the challenge and
29:28
we need to figure out a way to support artists who are making work and to
29:32
support you know the people bagging our groceries now and to support you know
29:37
the folks doing the food delivery and and we're not doing that yet
29:44
yeah I'm not sure I answer your question [Doug] no that was good but actually now that
29:51
you can you know evoked the Bamuthi presentation I want to I want to circle
29:54
back to that and give them a chance to expand a bit especially it's sort of
30:00
cold ask ourselves and especially as artists what are we doing in service of
30:04
social health and I want to give you a platform to go more with this because I
30:07
think it was bold and important [Bamuthi] thank you and I I really love the collegial
30:16
spirit of this this thank you for nurturing it Doug and yeah
30:23
I I really appreciate the the mutualism here
30:28
the the presentation for folks that haven't seen it or the or the core
30:34
concept is that artists should be deployed as in addition to the
30:41
manufacturer of films or poems or visual arts pieces that creative thinking that
30:47
artistic intelligence that creative intelligence should be more deeply
30:51
integrated into our systems building that we tend to that we tend to position
30:58
artists as weird and other I've spent my whole adult life in the San Francisco
31:04
Bay Area and before that I you know as I said I was born and raised in in New
31:09
York there's a real danger the you know again to use Jon's term the homogenous
31:18
asian of San Francisco is a global danger because somebody has to set the
31:27
edge somebody has to be weird somebody has to provoke a
31:35
of ethic sewn inside of the public imagination that that challenges us all
31:44
to see beyond the obvious right now so many of the gains so many of the
31:51
greatest minds I think that are in play in our collective economy are seeking to
31:58
maximize financial capital as opposed to you know I have a 18 year old son I have
32:05
a 14 year old daughter I notice in their generation that there's an urge there's
32:12
less of an urge to be great there's more of an urge to be seen it's a big
32:18
difference so artists and I think artistic thinking as part of our systems
32:28
engineering and our systems architecture is just
32:31
incredibly importance again somebody just has to push the margins of the public
32:37
imagination I think artists do that unfortunately I think the way that we've
32:42
characterized that work is as entertainment as kind of intellectually
32:52
marginal as off to you know to the side that artists just kind of like live up
33:00
on a hill somewhere or go to like artist Island and be weird there and then come
33:04
back you know some something that we might enjoy and ingest but again in the
33:10
background so this pertains this this kind of is is most salient to me in how
33:19
we think about the public health because I think what I say in the in the
33:26
presentation is that we are soon going to shift from thinking about health as a
33:32
virological reality to health as a mental and psychological reality and I
33:40
don't know who is stewarding for the country the reintegration of of intimacy
33:51
and close contact in public space as a public good I think that there are
33:59
incredible systems that we've devised to deport people I think that the prison
34:08
industrial complex is an incredible system so if we can design these systems
34:14
I believe that we can also design freedom I think that we can also design
34:19
public good and public health and to not enlist artists and artistic intelligence
34:27
in that design would be a mistake and so that's the thing that I think I spent
34:33
the majority of the presentation advocating for is is the is assigning
34:39
and deploying artists the same way that we would think about bringing several
34:46
the plans to bear if they were a Manhattan Project if if we were if if we
34:51
thought of public health the same way that we thought of weapons building who
34:58
would we bring to the table and hopefully it wouldn't just be scientists
35:03
it would be humanitarians as well [Doug] it's great I love this idea of deploying
35:09
artists and moving them in more mainstream and less weird but also
35:15
keeping and celebrating that weird and and celebrating that fringe but I have
35:19
to stop talking because I need to pass this over to Sunil who wants to jump in
35:23
[Sunil] no I just I was very inspired by me yeah I thought that that was very really like
35:28
your presentation I think that's the core point that we all should think
35:31
about um I guess what I would it's more of a question just to ask if people if
35:36
you feel any sectors are particularly ripe for that kind of transition or you
35:41
know incorporation of artists and arts workers in that way I mean I think you
35:46
mentioned public health and there's been really some great I think in last few
35:50
years and very encouraging signs of you know of coming together among you know
35:55
public or public health departments arts cultural agencies doing work and artists
35:59
I can think of R&D and business communities where we clearly there's a
36:04
big role for innovation through the Arts and I know there's been some attempts to
36:08
have artists and residents and those kinds of programs or their particular
36:10
sectors you think they're going to listen more to this call than others any
36:15
of you it's curious [Linda] I'm biased Sunil but I would say public education
36:23
[Bamuthi] I would I would say this is why Linda's foundational call in response to
36:32
the first question is so important because what are the sectors trying to
36:37
do you know the the National Football League isn't a humanitarian organization
36:43
they're trying to you know its its bottom line is make its to make money
36:47
using the instrument that's available to it and to make money very specifically
36:53
for its 30-something owners which is why the Commissioner of the National
36:57
Football League comes out on Friday and says yeah black lives matter go ahead
37:00
protest right there's and it's why you're seeing all these corporate
37:05
statements because it's very difficult to avoid the zeitgeist in this moment so
37:10
so maybe a rephrasing of the question is that all sectors are are ripe for this
37:20
kind of integration and and kind of but they but they have to shift what they
37:25
perceive as their bottom line if the bottom line is only financial capital
37:30
then none of them are but if the bottom line is social capital political capital
37:35
if we think about equity if we think about them equity inside of the moral
37:41
economy the same way that we think of equity inside a financial economy then
37:45
though then it's wide open but we have to go there first [Lucy] I want to
37:51
it might have been because the I absolutely agree I'm very inspired by
37:57
this one of the things that I've often thought about is you know often and
38:02
there's a whole literature on how people come together in disasters and all kinds
38:08
of paradises get built and then they dissipate it seems to me one sector that
38:14
I struggle with mightily and my whole professional career has spent trying to
38:19
understand this is this thing called the nonprofit sector which is as
38:24
hierarchical and structured for capitalization purposes as as any other
38:32
industry and it's also I think
38:39
and I was gonna say fraying but I don't think that's the right verb but we'll
38:45
use it for now in ways that offer tremendous opportunity and and what you
38:51
see around it as we often also do in quote-unquote disasters are these
38:57
community movements social movements these unstructured informal ways of
39:05
being that are driven by values other than financial value which is also one
39:11
of these first principles we keep sort of circling around I often say to people
39:14
you know the number one I live in San Francisco number one financial value
39:18
around here is efficiency but if I were to list my top ten values for you it
39:23
doesn't come anywhere it's nowhere near the list you know what happened to truth
39:26
and beauty and justice and those kinds of things so it's long way of saying I'm
39:33
agreeing with whoever said it might be all sectors I think everything is under
39:37
such the the the foundations of almost everything every public system we've
39:44
built and this adjacent nonprofit sector and probably many corporations as well
39:53
are showing that they were built on quicksand and how do we capture what's
40:00
happening already and I think the arts if there's a sector that a sector
40:05
it's where artists live it's where people who pursue I don't think of
40:10
artists as weird so much as those who proudly pursue a set of other values
40:15
first and foremost and the one that our current society has privileged above all
40:20
others of efficiency it's not a it's a wishy-washy answer and that I don't know
40:26
how to make it more practical but I think that's that there's tremendous
40:33
possibility there and I think we have to I for one lead the charge and saying
40:40
let's reimagine this whole Civic space this whole civil society thing it's got
40:45
those many fractures and fissures and unuseful elements to it as
40:51
as the marketplace in the government as [Doug] well it's good thank you
40:56
well I want to take that as a chance to bounce it back over to Jon who I think
41:00
has lots to say both about sort of different organizational structures and
41:04
legal types I'm glad you broach the non-profit thing
41:07
because the NFL might be one of my favorite nonprofits out there as a way
41:11
of teaching us a lesson about what nonprofit really means but Jon's got a
41:15
different vantage on this and I also want you to get have a chance to comment
41:18
on how you might think about this generally about systems to support
41:21
creativity and what other insights yes it may be two different pieces that may
41:26
or may not be something you can weave together [Jon] yeah I don't know if I can weave together but this
41:31
is this is such a great conversation and I 100% agree with Bamuthi your point
41:37
of like what are we design a system for so I Doug and Sunil are aware of a
41:43
project I've been working on quite some find out for Kickstarter which is like
41:47
how do we evaluate our mission performance how do we you know we're a
41:50
public benefit corporation we are trying not to maximize try to create a
41:55
different bottom line than just having financial return be our primary value
42:00
we're not a nonprofit that we want to create a sustainable business that can
42:05
operate independently just with a different bottom line than revenue so we
42:10
have to evaluate well what is the value what if the creative value of the work
42:13
that we're supporting what is our value in that process and what is the
42:15
diversity what is the creative diversity of the ecosystems a whole in order for
42:19
it to be healthy those are very difficult questions to answer and as
42:22
I've gone through the process of trying to figure out how we can answer that
42:26
question what I found is in the u.s. the value is always money right all of the
42:33
creative any sort of creative value nonprofit space bottom line is well
42:39
what's the economic impact with that right and that's what we're designing
42:42
for which is I don't think that is the bottom line like so how we have to
42:48
reimagine what would it were to be designing the system for and abroad
42:51
they're they've you know in Europe in other countries they talk more about
42:59
trying to find another bottom line but nowhere has really done it well as far
43:04
as I've been able to find yet and you still have the nonprofit problem which
43:07
is the the frameworks and methodologies they've developed to try to form a
43:13
different bottom line are being created by people that are in organisations that
43:17
are just trying to justify their own existence and get funders right so it's
43:20
it's actually kind of the same bottom line but one step removed and we're in a
43:25
position where we're actually just doing this because we think it like you know
43:28
it doesn't change anything in terms of our capital we're just trying to create
43:31
a healthier ecosystem but no one that we've been with find who's actually
43:34
created methodology for this without money as the thing that they're
43:38
ultimately aiming at for I was like maybe far as I can find and what's
43:44
beautiful about the moment that we're currently seeing in terms of the
43:48
challenge to policing in the United States is that it is a discussion about
43:53
well wait what if we reimagine this entire thing worth the value what this
43:58
is the big part of debate right it's like reforms versus defund abolish the
44:03
police and everyone's kind of freaking out about abolish the police from the
44:07
police but but it's opening up this conversation of a really radical
44:10
reimagining of the underlying values of what this is and how we relate to each
44:15
other in community and that's a if we can all these systems are interconnected
44:21
actually at the end of the day and if we can start reimagining you know how what
44:27
we build our society for in one area I think we can start pulling it into into
44:32
the rest [Doug] Linda did you want to jump in [Linda] yeah I just I'm starting to form an idea so I'm and I'm speaking it
44:43
out loud to 250 people or over many are listening but I think you know we're
44:47
talking a lot about systems and I think I think the answers aren't going to be
44:51
at that macro level but really in communities
44:54
settings and as I was thinking that Lucy put something in the chat box about what
44:58
about healthy community food systems so when we look at at arts activity in
45:03
community settings in with for communities with community support those
45:11
have the potential to be healthier when we look and think about this notion of
45:18
policing if we invest in communities in education and Community Arts and
45:27
Community Services and bring police in as community members as part of a
45:33
community that month you know and then network these communities together so in
45:39
this utopian imaginary that's Lucy's word again she's good with the metaphors
45:45
Thank You Lucy is you know this this utopia of networked communities where
45:51
our communities are really working internally and then working across
45:55
communities with one another but the the the centralization of financial capital
46:01
and a few small corporations and to some extent a few a few nonprofit large
46:07
nonprofit organizations works against that idea and that's why you have people
46:12
like like like the artists I mentioned to you know is out of work there
46:17
needs to be a community level support for those folks
46:19
just the thought [Doug] thank you so I'm gonna interject briefly here to also remind
46:26
the audience that's out there to email in and tweet in questions we're getting
46:31
near an end time where we can start taking some I've heard it see there's a
46:34
bunch of there's a bunch of them they've been collected but we're collecting more
46:37
as we go and I'm gonna get fed some of these questions as we go but maybe I'll
46:42
give one last sort of question for me that I'm gonna pop over to Sunil
46:48
about what you see is some lessons learned here as we insofar as we react
46:54
to the pandemic or other crises of the moment what do you think is some of the
47:00
lessons learned that across your desk [Sunil] you know I could just say I'll happen to
47:05
live in Maryland and I don't think I'll ever be quite nostalgic
47:08
about my commute morning commute two into the city but that said one one time
47:14
I remember way before all this happened like years ago I was commuting and you
47:19
know I was on my phone as often am checking work messages replying busily
47:23
somebody I knew who didn't work at the National Endowment for the Arts came up to me
47:26
and like who I knew knew anyway said to me you know what are you doing
47:30
you look so engaged because she goes um you know there are no emergencies in the
47:35
arts she basically told me because she knew I worked at the Arts now and now
47:38
ralick statement now is I guess not only emergencies for the arts but I think
47:43
nationally and how the arts are you know clearly part of the solution I think as
47:46
we're all saying in a systemic way I said that because you reminded me and I
47:51
think what I'm trying to get across here is a lot of what we've discussed so far
47:54
I think necessarily involves starting some things from scratch right but I
48:00
also want to shout out to the fact that there sis they're sort of you know
48:04
there's some bright spots right without being Pollyannish or some places where
48:08
these convergences have been happening and built and made stronger one
48:11
thing I'd like to point out which we didn't really discuss and maybe this is
48:14
a lesson learned is uh you know we have a couple of great colleagues Brian
48:17
lusher and Andy Mathis who frequently go to Puerto Rico and and the Virgin
48:24
Islands over well after the hurricane problems that happen you know assist
48:28
with recovery and ongoing not just fly in and leave but really stay and help
48:32
the communities there I think that kind of disaster relief consciousness or that
48:36
kind of mindset of emergency preparedness is something that I think
48:39
art the arts now has to kind of take in and sustain and we have to continue to
48:44
think about ourselves on the front lines of rebuilding in many of these cases I
48:50
just think it's a couple of quick things zanny boss some of you know and Jill
48:55
Robinson put a report out recently called the long haul in it for the long
48:59
haul talking largely about nonprofit arts
49:01
cultural organizations after the pandemic and one of the things she says
49:05
in it is local audiences local talent indeed the local supply chain will reign
49:10
supreme this is assuming that the travel industry is going to be hit very hard
49:13
and we're not going to have the ability to be as geographically mobile so I
49:17
think that again throws us back in on ourselves and our local communities and
49:20
finding solutions our communities and so I mean I don't
49:23
know how that's operationalize but I think that's a key lesson for me is that
49:26
the local supply chain really attending to the circles that are broadening out
49:32
in these larger concentric circles for the Arts and for people to participate
49:35
more fully I said enough but one quick thing I think virtual engagement is we
49:40
talked about that what that looks like in maintaining equity inclusion in these
49:45
platforms and ensuring that you know we don't move into a monolithic scenario
49:49
with arts on through the internet and online I think that we preserve these
49:54
different voices somehow it's going to be crucial as well [Doug] that's that's great
49:59
Sunil thank you you're continuing to set me up well on this and I'm going
50:03
to mention that one of the comments were getting bit from the AEI backstage room
50:08
is that you've been dropping a lot of statistics and numbers Sunil and people
50:12
want to know your sources they want to know where this research is coming from
50:15
and have you share it so maybe rather than having you listed all now we'll
50:19
find a way to get that info back to these people [Sunil] well they really want to know that
50:22
this is legit [Doug] I don't think they were questioning it, I thin they're curious [Sunil] I thought I just threw out big numbers [Doug] but actually the
50:31
last point that you mentioned in your remarks there is something that comes to
50:35
us a question wants to build off that that comes to us from Twitter from Bente
50:39
Bouthier I probably butchered that name and I apologize for
50:42
it but I'll read it and since while many many organizations have adapted to
50:47
digital models during the pandemic how could moving away from in-person
50:51
consumption of art an exchange of ideas impact the arts sector long term
51:04
[Bamuthi] I just have an emotional response and the emotional response comes from I'm
51:14
here in Washington DC I don't live too far away from 1600
51:20
blacklivesmatter Plaza and I rode my bike around this weekend and was moved
51:33
chilled and a little scared as I weaved in and out of protests probably 95% of
51:43
the people that were out had masks on but there were a few that didn't and I
51:53
the the dual crises of I guess one of the questions that was launched for me
52:01
is why are people out here risking literally risking their health and I
52:10
have to think that there's some understanding that we are only as safe
52:16
as the members of our community who are most at risk and so there's something
52:25
about this moment where the the risk was worth it for tens of thousands of people
52:38
across all 50 states and dozens of countries
52:41
so let's transpose that to arts experiences and creative experiences is
52:52
what's worth the risk of coming together in intimate space to engage in
53:00
collectively in creative practices and creative imagination what is the
53:06
calculus in terms of our self-concept our Civic constant
53:14
what degree what variable what weight does Public Engagement hold in our
53:23
self-concept and in our Civic concept there's this is lovely I love seeing you
53:31
guys in your boxes you guys are gorgeous I really appreciate it but but in terms
53:41
of my self-concept there's something missing here you know there's so I think
53:47
that what the arts sector has to consider what we're all wrestling with
53:54
is that the virtual experience delivers content but not humanity the the virtual
54:03
experience isn't why we got into this thing and it's not the function it does
54:09
not answer the question what does our country need from us right now our
54:13
country I believe needs for us to design systems that bring people back together
54:20
because everything then cascades over our economic well-being our you know our
54:28
sense of morality it cascades over into this thing of if if there is no public
54:35
good there's a difference I guess between something that happens in public
54:40
and a public moment you know I mean a public value and so I think that the
54:48
arts sector can't go the arts sector has to figure out a way to evolve forward I
54:55
you know it's the the equity and the democracy that's demonstrated in having
55:02
these virtual channels the the collective access that we have to sublime
55:09
art that we may not have had before is amazing and that's a fantastic content
55:14
strategy but it's not the actual mandate for the arts sector it's not what the
55:20
world needs right now
55:22
[Doug] interesting well I think we have time to sneak in one other question here at
55:27
least this one comes also from Twitter from the Alliance for the Arts and
55:31
research universities what are we doing to give our citizens and our students in
55:36
our current systems access and time to develop creative intelligence
55:46
you want to take that one off
55:52
[Linda] um I'll I guess being a Dean in a university and this might be directed at
55:58
me um we have to whether it's virtually or in real-time provides students while
56:08
they're in school and I would say this K through graduate school opportunities to
56:14
fail and to figure stuff out you know you don't you don't build creative
56:20
intelligence by doing something someone else told you to do over and over again
56:24
you build creative intelligence by by doing new things and putting them out in
56:29
the world and seeing if they fly I think I mix my metaphors but that's that you
56:34
know ultimately it comes down to that giving students opportunities to build
56:38
creativity to to develop their own voices and one of our strategic
56:43
priorities in the College of Arts and Letters at Cal State LA product
56:47
placement is to build voices for social justice that's a college priority right
56:53
we have to give students an opportunity to do that and to to fail at doing that
56:59
and be supported in that failure and get back up and dust off and do it again and
57:03
grow creatively
57:07
[Doug] other thoughts on this one
57:13
[Jon] I'll just jump in you know I think just a building on that
57:18
the most creative spaces that I've seen built before like people emerging
57:25
artists or ones that value the pursuit of new ideas rather than the actual
57:30
success of them right if all you do is and this is where actually digital
57:34
platforms are really come off me really bag as they value often success and I
57:39
are optimizing just for like getting there and winning the attention or
57:45
almost on the like war and all that stuff but when you have a space that is
57:49
just like well are you working on something and is it is it kind of weird
57:53
is it on the edge great a lot of that stuff's gonna be terrible but it doesn't
57:58
matter because that's where the best stuff emerges that and that's that I
58:02
think is I've seen very few spaces that actually build value systems where that
58:09
is like kind of the culture and that's what's valued rather than was it really
58:14
successful in the end
58:18
[Doug] good thanks so I've got a remark from and a question from Rachel Skaggs who's
58:24
at the Ohio State University and she's in our backstage room and zoom
58:28
apparently and here's what she writes I love the conversation on arts thinking
58:33
is key to systems building which is definitely linked to creative
58:36
placemaking and place keeping in social practice are are there recent examples
58:42
of arts interventions into society happening in your communities or how
58:47
does it rephrase they're examples of this that come to mind that you can
58:50
share and discuss it with [Bamuthi] yeah for me it's it's hard not to think about what
59:03
what well first with Theaster Gates has done in Chicago on
59:10
the south side of Chicago what Rick Lowe has done with project row houses in
59:17
Third Ward in Houston what Quran Davis has done on Crenshaw Avenue with
59:31
destination Crenshaw all these examples are examples of creative communities
59:40
hacking real estate and encouraging both inside and outside not only a reclaiming
59:51
a physical space but a but a claiming of psychological space again going back to
59:57
what we perceive as beautiful and valuable but those you know all those
60:07
examples I think are very instructive because they they do go back to the
60:13
Black Panther parties you know principles we want land right so where
60:21
the arts sector I think is most successful in terms of making these
60:26
kinds of incursions have everything to do with
60:31
a kind of reclamation of square blocks if not square miles in major cities now
60:40
this can happen in rural communities and in urban communities as well but these
60:46
artists have essentially formed these small oasis where creative enterprises
60:53
or creative thought or a different kind of value system might flourish they've
60:57
created micro economies but they needed land to do it not buildings but square
61:03
mileage right square footage is not going straight up so I think this too is
61:09
one of those places where virtual space is exciting and offers a prompt in terms
61:19
of and offers safe haven in terms of where ideas might flourish but without
61:28
space to grow in the material world it's a little bit more difficult to attach
61:36
that to our current economic system to our to our current understanding of what
61:43
value is and what is valuable um it's also interesting to me that the examples
61:50
that I gave destination Crenshaw project row houses and and rebuild that these
61:57
are prompts from the visual arts sector and the economy in the visual arts
62:02
sector is different than the economy in my sector in the performing arts sector
62:06
because if I make a dance it has lots of value to me but not as much value as the
62:13
photograph behind me as a matter of fact this photograph can be sold but my dance
62:19
cannot right so there's a way that visual artists have used the financial
62:25
resources from the sale of their work to then support themselves on a higher
62:31
level but also to create land bases from which their creative ideas might might
62:36
flourish so those are three examples that that I would cite but they also
62:41
open up a whole new can of in terms of how we get the financial
62:47
resources to support these mini oasis of interdependence creative activity and
62:56
support for historically marginalized communities [Doug] great thank you all right so
63:04
I just got another great question from from an email that I think is gonna
63:09
touch on something we've already talked about a little bit for this distinction
63:13
between sort of blowing stuff up and more radical reforms or reimagining
63:19
versus more incremental things and I think generally attention we all feel or
63:24
see about trying to push to get back to the way things were that these systems
63:31
are designed often to be really resilient and to a fault in some obvious
63:35
examples today so here's the question from Priya Sircar have the panelists see
63:41
as the role of philanthropy in reimagining or dismantling the current
63:47
system
63:51
question but small answers are okay [Sunil] well I just thought that you know all of us
63:58
those of us who are arts in the arts funding organizations we know that
64:03
cross-sectoral funding cross-sectoral initiatives that's been a kind of
64:07
buzzword for the last several years among the philanthropists community and
64:11
I think now we're in a position that you know really look at which you know which
64:16
kinds of mashups of sectors are maybe most viable even in the short term and I
64:21
think again I can only say like I think I love examples just given about what we
64:26
might consider creative placemaking we had to label it but I think that's a
64:30
really strong vibrant sector within the arts alone I think a lot of the work
64:34
around arts and health arts in public health but also arts being used in in
64:39
clinics and clinic out clinic settings for a range of services that we might
64:43
consider social services and substance abuse to trauma recovery a whole bunch
64:48
of things I think there's already some embeddedness going on there now I don't
64:52
think that we're in a position to say it's an you know it's gotten to where we
64:55
all would like it where the arts and artists doing the work of this are
64:58
valued as you know instrumental to these systems but I think we're much further
65:04
along I think from our little corner of the world I think what we can do is try
65:07
to for example support research and build up evidence that will speak to
65:11
those communities which are using different vocabularies from all of us
65:14
right and really speak their language a little bit it does require maybe a
65:18
little discomfort because we want rapid change we want radical change in many
65:22
cases systemically that's warranted but I think at the same time doing it
65:27
incrementally is the only real I think viable short to medium term solution
65:31
being a relentless incrementalist you know about this and yet while doing
65:36
that not losing sight of the vision you know so I think I think you know I think
65:40
we've made some progress as funders together and collaborating with other
65:44
other kinds of funders whether it's you know collaborations with arts funders
65:48
and say the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation or you know looking at you
65:53
know certainly other organizations that are doing work and place-based
65:56
initiatives where the arts isn't necessarily central to their mission I
66:00
think that has to continue
66:03
[Lucy] I was just gonna say I think there's a really interesting possibility
66:12
here that's occurring to me from this whole conversation one of the things
66:15
that and I I mostly work with philanthropic foundations who are by law
66:20
required to fund institutions and then you've got something like a Kickstarter
66:24
and the re-visability not that they're not new they've been there
66:29
forever but a new visibility on mutual aid support networks right the arts is
66:34
an area is sort of in this siloed world we think of where the individual and a
66:41
collective of people is still really recognized as the power it's the
66:46
creative energy not the institution itself so how can we encourage the big
66:54
money that's locked up in these big foundations that by norm and law fund
67:00
organizations only and we can't get the money to the people and things like
67:05
Kickstarter bail funds mutual aid networks where there's been this reattention
67:12
to the end you know the fact that we had a presidential candidate who
67:17
socialized the phrase universal basic income didn't succeed in it but really
67:23
shift the attention I'm not anti institution but we're talking about
67:27
people here I mean Linda started us off talking about an individual artist so is
67:32
there a way to deliberately hybridize some of this keeping the power in the
67:38
distributed networks but the money is locked up in these big piles and
67:45
distributing it out through these networks where the the individual and
67:51
the collective is the center of energy and let those be
67:56
the I'm gonna now metaphor mash mushroom up some new institutional structures for
68:03
us I think we've got some and you know the rules that make philanthropy work
68:08
the way it works are utterly changeable they're human world we made them we
68:14
wrote them we can rewrite them but that recognition and there's a such
68:19
power in that because I'm having a hard time at thinking of any other sector of
68:24
philanthropy where we know the creative energy is not the institution as much as
68:32
the individuals I'm not coming up with ... we don't anyway so I think there's
68:37
a real moment there to reimagine some of these systems maybe we could stop
68:44
locking people up so we stopped needing bail and we can use bail funds as art
68:51
funds or something like that ties right back into the police defunding situation
68:56
all of that money redirecting it [Doug] Jon [Jon] yeah okay
69:02
I'll try to be quick about this because one I've been working on this problem at
69:05
Kickstarter for a while as well yeah we're trying to access those giant pools
69:11
capital and redistribute them at scale to a lot of individuals right like and
69:15
this is actually something I've been pitching foundations and philanthropy
69:20
institutions for a while in my spare time it's not my primary job I guess but
69:25
it's something that it makes total sense it's very hard to get those institutions
69:29
to change and we have to basically launder the money because it's not set
69:33
up for this so I have to take a foundation I've worked with the knight
69:36
foundation on this the knight foundation made a grant to American documentary at
69:40
an American documentary pledged in two campaigns right and in talking them
69:44
about this program my point is that I was like you know if we have five
69:49
hundred thousand dollars I would much rather have two
69:52
hundred thousand dollars going to a hundred artists in very small amounts
69:56
that we can leverage through our platform through community adding it to
70:00
community support to reply to a platform like Kickstarter then five grants of
70:06
$100,000 because those five grants or $100,000 tend to go to people that are
70:11
very privileged in cities with connections to large institutions and
70:15
they tend to look more like me and you know we want to be in very small towns
70:21
across everywhere with access to everyone and that small amount can
70:25
catalyze a huge change for those artists lives so that's one piece of this so
70:29
we're on this if people want to talk about
70:32
this please reach out to me but and the other thing I want to mention here
70:35
actually comes from a climate work idea because I'm also a head of
70:38
sustainability at kickstarter and I do a lot of climate change work and there's a
70:44
problem in climate change that it's being solved that I don't see being
70:47
solved in some of the problems that we're talking about which is the gap
70:50
between traditional philanthropy and venture capital right so climate change
70:55
you can have charities that just donate money to something that's doing you know
71:00
fighting climate change but it's in seeking return it tends to be a
71:04
non-profit or you have venture capital search trying to make it a 10x 20x
71:07
return and it leaves this massive gap of opportunity where you need a ton of
71:11
capital going into companies and solutions that may have a go may just
71:15
return the capital right it'll give them if things work out well it's 1 or 2 X
71:21
return to the granting institution and actually don't have things set up for
71:26
that mechanisms or capital frameworks to really do that kind of a capital
71:34
allocation that's something as we think about well what do we need to rebuild
71:39
the institutions the foundations of how arts are supported shared distributed
71:46
made in society we have this massive gap they were coming back they're a company
71:51
like ampled which you know I really want to succeed even if it hurts
71:55
Kickstarter there's no capital for them because they're not going to get
71:59
philanthropy money because they are a non-profit and they're not going to get
72:03
venture capital money because they're maximizing financial return but
72:06
ultimately that solution is if it can flourish and be self sustainable as far
72:12
more impactful and equitable than what most nonprofits are doing and certainly
72:16
for-profit companies are doing and so thinking about different ways to deploy
72:20
capital and ways that are sustainable that help grow a better soil develop a
72:25
better soil for us is something that I think needs to be considered [Bamuthi] if I can
72:32
just jump in here and unfortunately I just have to challenge the premise of
72:38
the question because you know what philanthropy the
72:43
the core of philanthropic giving is over generations an individual a family has
72:51
made zillions of dollars destroying the planet and then spends point zero zero
72:58
one percent of the zillions of dollars that they've made to you know and
73:02
there's a graphic going around right now where New York City is spending
73:08
something like six billion dollars on its police force and 750 million dollars
73:14
on youth and Community Development the question isn't for philanthropy
73:18
whose model is you know thanks to you know thanks to Jon and - you know and -
73:24
Lucy - Sunil really all for all four of you that are rethinking how funds are
73:32
distributed in terms of the public good but it's a trap - to ask what could
73:41
fillet have to be doing be doing better you know this goes back to you know Lucy
73:47
sighting of Andrew yang and a universal basic income it goes back to a kind of
73:55
pre Reagan you know 1950s 1960s tax structure quite honestly what are you
74:05
know this is back to a Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren reading of of the tax
74:11
code it's just a sigh I mean I love Elizabeth Warren's idea of a billionaire
74:16
tax which is like make your money man but after after a while how much right
74:22
so I just wanna I love all the innovations that are being made in the
74:27
realm of philanthropy but I just think that we have to challenge the the
74:30
premise of the question itself because the place is an undue burden the same
74:34
way that I think that we place sometimes an undue burden on the artists to come
74:39
in and do a poem for disadvantaged kids and then we're mad when
74:46
racism doesn't end at the end of the poem you know I mean it's it it doesn't
74:51
work like that in terms of the moral landscape and it doesn't work like that
74:55
in terms of the financial landscape we really have to think our tax rethink
74:59
our tax structure and what our priorities are in terms of the civic
75:04
good it can't just be on philanthropy to undo all these systemic pathologies [Doug] on that thank you
75:15
I'm really excited to be ending this in some ways with questioning the premise and the question in the
75:18
first place I take that as a huge sign of success for the conversation that
75:23
we've accomplished a lot there and I wish we could go on much longer actually
75:27
in part cuz I've got a a giant stack of questions that only seem to keep getting
75:32
better from the audience so there's a lot of demand and curiosity for what you
75:35
all have to say which just means I should be especially thankful to all of
75:40
my panelists all five of you for coming together joining us having this
75:43
conversation thank you very much does anybody have a last word or six
75:48
they want to throw in who run into the lunch hour I don't see any digital hands
75:53
going up so with that thank you all very much everyone else stay tuned you can
75:59
keep watching this we get a little information on about our Center but
76:03
otherwise we're going to be back at 1 o'clock for panel B
76:06
which should also be very exciting thank you all everybody [Bamuthi] really appreciate
76:11
y'all thank you [Linda] thank you Doug [Lucy] thank you [Sunil] thanks very much
Description of the video:
00:04
[Joanna] great we are all here so welcome everybody
00:10
it is 1:01 p.m. Eastern Standard Time I'm in Bloomington Indiana and my name is
00:17
Joanna Woronkowicz and I'm one of the co-directors of the Arts,
00:20
Entrepreneurship, and Innovation Lab here at the Center for Cultural Affairs we
00:25
have a really exciting panel at right now and I'm so happy to be the moderator
00:32
of it we're talking about community and engagement and before we get started how
00:38
about we go around the room and just briefly introduce ourselves I'm gonna
00:43
start with Amaka [Nwamaka] Hi everyone my name is Amaka Agbo and I'm with Nwamaka Agbo Consulting
00:50
based out of Oakland California and I used the pronoun she
00:55
and her thank you thanks for having me again
00:57
[Joanna] thanks so much for being here and Tally
01:09
[Tally] hi my name is Tally Katz-Gerro
01:16
I'm very happy to be here and to participate in this event so thank you
01:22
Joanna and Doug for inviting me I'm a sociologist based at the University of
01:28
Haifa in Israel in my work I'm interested in cultural consumption
01:33
cultural policy and comparing between countries right [Joanna] thanks for being here
01:39
Tally Alan [Alan] hi everyone I'm Alan brown I live
01:47
in the great city of Detroit Michigan and I'm a researcher and consultant in
01:54
the arts and culture sector delighted to be with you [Joanna] thanks Alan for being here
01:59
and how about Peter [Peter] hello everyone Thank You Joanna
02:04
I'm Peter Linett I'm calling in from Santa Fe which is the traditional
02:09
homeland of the ... Pueblo on the Thomas Pueblo my professional life is
02:14
based in Chicago at the firm Slover Linett audience research
02:18
we're social research practice we just want to say Joanna and Doug what a great
02:22
panel you put together in the first round earlier today was tremendous as
02:27
were some of the many of the pre-recorded talks so thank you for
02:32
including me yeah [Joanna] thanks Peter and finally Mark [Mark] I'm Mark Shapiro I'm
02:38
humbled to be among this group and definitely feel like the outlier both
02:42
intellectually and experienced wise just a sports guy 30 years live in Toronto
02:50
Canada and I'm the CEO and president of the Blue Jays [Joanna] great well thanks everybody for being
02:57
here today I just want to remind the attendees that we will be taking
03:01
questions near the end of the panel so you can either send in your questions
03:06
via twitter at our twitter handle @ccaoneill #AEI2020 or send in
03:13
those questions via email ccaoneill@iu.edu
03:19
we also have "Backstage @ AEI" a zoom room going on and you can get to our get
03:27
to that room by going to our website and clicking the link so we'll be taking
03:30
questions from all three of those places near the end of the panel so I'm just
03:35
going to go ahead and get started we have some amazing keynote presentations
03:40
that Mark and Amaka were part of that are already posted to our website and
03:48
our event page that really start to put forward some provocative ideas and
03:53
questions and I want to just start with responding having our panelists respond
03:58
to those keynotes so in Amaka keynote she talks about the structural
04:05
challenges to marginalized communities that the pandemic has really helped lay
04:09
bare especially in regard to where the concentration of power lies within a
04:15
capiTallystic climate and then we saw Marks keynote and he clearly outlines
04:20
the challenges that the sports industry is facing due to the pandemic with
04:25
regard to figuring out how to sustain a multi-billion dollar industry that
04:29
supports diverse and multi-layered system of
04:32
communities this includes staff athletes and fans so I'm gonna start with Tally
04:39
if that's okay with you and then how about we move on to Alan and then Peter
04:43
can you just talk about the challenges and hardships you're observing in your
04:49
work with regard to communities which you believe are attributable to how the
04:53
pandemic has changed our way of life [Tally] thank you for the question Joanna and
05:00
I'd like to start by thanking Amaka and Mark for the contributions which
05:06
were really interesting I would like to echo some of what they said and to
05:11
reiterate that society is probably going to change in radical ways and we have to
05:18
acknowledge that as the title of this event is it's not going to be back to
05:23
normal billions of people are in lockdown at
05:26
the same time in different parts of the world and this makes us feel that we are
05:32
part of the same problem and that we should address it all together and this
05:38
means that we need more solidarity and to move away from cultural prejudice and
05:44
this really resonates with the concept of restorative economics of course we
05:50
have to remember that vulnerable underprivileged groups such as women
05:55
communities of color immigrants low income groups children youth the elderly
06:02
the homeless all of them experienced the pandemic very differently Covid 19 is
06:10
exacerbating existing inequalities because these groups are being hit
06:14
harder as they have less access to health care and more difficulties self
06:20
isolating and these inequalities are also evident when thinking about
06:25
cultural participation and cultural engagement and I separate the two
06:31
deliberately for instance vulnerable groups tend to have less access to
06:36
public spaces and to green spaces public or private green spaces in lower-income
06:42
neighborhoods are often smaller under maintained less numerous
06:46
than those in wealthier neighborhoods public spaces are really important for
06:52
providing social interactions that mitigates isolation and loneliness and
06:57
these are places where some forms of cultural activities happen so the
07:04
epidemic accentuates the difference between what's important and what's not
07:09
and one thing that I would like to really emphasize is that we should
07:15
remember that the arts and cultural sector is an extremely important one
07:21
both because it represents the morals values and spirit of society but also
07:27
because it is a major economic Market and we have billions of people employed
07:32
and a lot of money contributed to the economy so access to art and culture and
07:40
the ability of different social groups to engage in them is really important
07:45
both for individuals and for communities and society in general because such
07:50
engagement is the backbone of solidarity of integration and of inclusion and
07:57
returning to business as usual will not deliver a sustained long term recovery
08:03
that also improves well-being and reduces inequality and maybe later on we
08:08
can talk more about the link between cultural engagement and various aspects
08:14
of well-being and maybe I'll stop here for now
08:24
[Joanna] we move on to Alan [Alan] thanks tally and thanks Joanna hi everyone the gosh is
08:35
so much so much to respond to let me just first begin by saying that um back
08:42
in early March when people were kind of panicking and managing you know doing
08:52
triage Mark you're not alone in doing triage it occurred to me that we really
09:03
need to hear from audiences when things turn around and when facilities are able
09:10
to reopen we need to hear from community members so I very quickly put together
09:19
what is now the Covid 19 audience outlook monitor study you can find out
09:25
more about that at audienceoutlookmonitor.com we're really still gearing
09:30
up we've deployed surveys in five or six cities we've got about 10 more to go
09:37
we're in Australia Canada Norway and potentially several other countries so
09:46
it's interesting because we're seeing results from countries where the
09:52
situation is way different than in ours and I guess you know communities like
09:59
Joanna the you know we're we're researching audience members actually
10:04
which is a really poor proxy for communities because we're not talking to
10:12
people who don't already patronize cultural institutions and I think you
10:19
know Peter maybe you can go into this a little bit because I know you are but
10:25
you know if anything like this is the missing link is you know initially our
10:32
site was just like are people gonna come back how can we get people back
10:36
and now with the racial justice movement that we're seeing I think there's a
10:41
whole new set of questions that that delve very deeply into moral imperatives
10:50
I think we're seeing a failure of cultural policy in not not having
11:02
mechanisms for communities to set collective priorities but rather
11:07
allowing the Wild West of institutions to dominate what is produced we're
11:16
seeing a failure of strategic planning in that our strategic planning for years
11:23
has never even tolerated multiple viewpoints on what the future should
11:27
look like so we've not allowed a plurality of voices to the table and
11:36
only now are we discovering what scenario planning is and that's
11:43
something we need to learn a lot about so Mark I was intrigued by your comment
11:51
about grappling with shorter attention spans and but believe us that's
12:00
something that we think about all the time in arts and culture it's a
12:05
difficult conversation whether to allow people with devices to you know to use
12:10
devices during cultural events and a deep belief system that our job is to
12:19
teach people how to pay attention so maybe we're training your next
12:24
generation of sports fans so there's so much to talk about the harm in our
12:31
communities is so great I've done a deep analysis of the sector here in
12:37
southeastern Michigan I'm not really authorized to talk about that yet except
12:41
maybe in broad generalities but there are large significant percentages of
12:48
organizations that are in sort of 50 state 50 flavors of
12:53
insolvency prepare you know running out of cash figuring out whether to
13:02
completely hibernate in order to live to see another day The effect of the
13:12
pandemic on the african-american community here in Detroit has been
13:15
devastating much much worse than the white community and I'm not yet seeing
13:23
efforts by leadership in the cultural community to make choices about who who
13:28
gets support I'm seeing little relief checks going out which do not even begin
13:36
to approach the systemic problems you know that we need so I'll close by just
13:44
saying that you know before we were just focusing on audiences and when they'll
13:50
come back and now we're focusing on why why are we restoring institutions that
13:58
were built around white privilege and how can we fundamentally alter our
14:06
course as as a field so that's uh my initial provocation [Joanna] thanks Alan, Peter
14:16
[Peter] yeah I agree Alan this is a time for research as listening I think you know
14:24
research and evaluation have traditionally been part of the problem
14:27
what was called in the last panel monoculture tried maintaining or
14:32
extending exactly that white privilege that European set of definitions and
14:37
that very narrow sort of value Laden but pretending toward universality set of
14:44
values I think it's really clear that the disease that Marked them with the
14:50
Joseph talks about is is one thing it is not just the virus over here and George
14:56
Floyd and black lives matter over here it's it's an integrated
15:02
pain and illness so the question is how can research help right and I feel like
15:08
Amaka your framing which is so beautiful and I found your talk really inspiring
15:15
you're asking at the macro level the question that I've been trying to ask at
15:19
the cultural sector level which is of course one subsystem in the broader
15:25
notion that you've been painting and I guess I'm curious about what you say
15:29
about cultural power which you in one of your slides described is the outer ring
15:34
the precondition for all the other kinds of power that need to be distributed and
15:38
shared and lived in a more equitable and co-creative way so I'm trying to figure
15:45
out the link is it just a linguistic accident that the field that Alan and I
15:50
and some of us work in is just is called culture is that a different definition
15:55
than the sense in which you're using the word I'd love to hear your thoughts
16:00
about that and I have a big sort of pressing question that flows from that
16:05
which is about reparations because you're talking about repair and I think
16:09
the moment that were in is potentially an accelerant of a reckoning that was
16:15
long overdue and that was just being you know sort of unpacked and talked about
16:19
across the world of museums and and arts and cultural organisations prior to all
16:25
of us so I'm trying to see some good in it eventually but I just want to thank
16:33
you for that and we can talk about what the reparations are apologies might
16:37
before I have some thoughts about them
16:42
[Nwamaka] should I jump in Joanna yeah well thanks Peter I I appreciate that and thank you
16:50
all for your comments like some of the speakers have alluded to I come from a
16:56
long-term social racial justice organizing background working on policy
17:00
electoral politics community organizing and the framework of restorative
17:05
economics is one that is intentionally rooted in a framework of reparations and
17:10
restorative justice so when you bring up this piece around culture Peter I
17:16
I try to be intentional about referring to it as cultural power because to the
17:22
point that Tally raised culture is about our norms and our values our
17:27
beliefs our faiths and how those get reproduced in society through different
17:32
systems over and over again and the power piece is important because it
17:37
calls us early question who gets to produce and who gets to own and so once
17:43
again what are the cultural norms that get validated in institutions through
17:49
museums through music through celebrations out in the community and
17:54
for me I think if we wanted to kind of talk about why this is important in the
18:00
framework of reparation was only within the few last few years that we got the
18:04
African American Smithsonian in Washington DC the Smithsonian being a
18:09
long-term institution that's had a ... documenting the history the experiences
18:13
the people from a number of different cultures and given the four hundred year
18:17
legacy that the United States has around enslavement around genocide of
18:22
indigenous communities and black communities only now actually having a
18:26
space that's dedicated to documenting not only the pain and suffering but also
18:32
looking at the ways that black people have figured out how to celebrate and
18:36
have joy in within all that pain and suffering and so reparations is
18:41
important because it calls it invites us into really fitting with the
18:45
acknowledgement of the harm that was done because we actually can't go to
18:48
something that is more more just more equitable without knowing what that
18:53
actually looks like and what we're trying to repair and that understand
18:57
reparations has to actually be supported by actions and so yes I think apologies
19:04
and acknowledgment are a good place to start but then it calls us in to have
19:08
specific choices around when and how we make interventions to ensure that we
19:12
don't repeat the same harm and to also ensure that we are providing those same
19:17
communities that have been disproportionately impacted the skills
19:21
the tools the resources that they need to be to be able to kind of engage in a
19:27
more dignified livelihood and I think for
19:29
as we start to think about the what this means and we think about arts and
19:33
culture in this moment what we even to think about sports in this moment I
19:37
continue to come back to what does it mean to have collective care what does
19:42
it mean to actually have a strong social safety net where artists the vendors
19:48
that you know I love to go to the Oakland A's game things I love to go to the Warriors
19:52
games when they were still in open and the fact that we could have those
19:57
individual was working a minimum wage right what's the minimum that you need
20:01
to survive rather than a living wage how do we ensure that you have access to
20:05
quality housing access to education access to the healthcare benefit so that
20:10
you as a cultural worker you as somebody won't disappoint the sports industry has
20:15
a baseline and from there right you can build up on it I think for me one of the
20:20
things that has been innovative and exciting in this moment has been
20:25
watching so many artists figure out how to actually take the work online and
20:31
really also figuring out how moving to online virtual spaces creates the level
20:37
of accessibility that we oftentimes haven't been called into or required of
20:41
us before and so I think that there's also a way for us to really lean into
20:47
how the moment is inviting us to be more intentional and thoughtful about what
20:52
all of us need in terms of collective care but then how we also use a lot of
20:56
the technologies and innovations that we've benefited from to help ensure that
21:00
cultural workers have a larger platform can reach bigger audiences and that
21:06
they're resourced appropriately for their work and that they also then get
21:11
to have power and say over how their work is reproduced and sustained and so
21:16
yeah I'll get off my soapbox but thank you Peter [Joanna] thank you Amaka
21:23
you know my next question was about commonalities across all of our fields
21:28
especially in regards to challenges and hardships we're seeing but I think you
21:32
just went right ahead and started talking about those Amaka's framework
21:37
honestly from your keynote really gives us a sense of commonality
21:42
to to reference to so the it's funny I I want to I want to hear a little bit from
21:49
Mark because you talk about the challenges that the sports industry is
21:55
facing and well from the creative sectors standpoint we tend to always put
22:01
sort of sports against arts arts are different than sports etc but to me it
22:06
seems like there are so many more commonalities than we would even notice
22:09
so one of the points for example that Tally made is this idea of these two
22:16
forms of engagement helping us socially engage so I guess I want to know from
22:23
Mark what are you thinking about when it comes to this when it comes to this word
22:29
community are you trying to interrogate that word moving forward now that our
22:35
world has changed so much are you thinking about your fans differently
22:40
like who were your communities before this happened to who were your
22:44
communities right now [Mark] well again I think it's a bit overwhelming and challenging
22:52
to kind of talk about sports and in light of Amakas comments and some of the
22:57
other comments being made it goes a little mundane and all embarrassing
23:00
frankly I will say just a preface that answer Joanna they listen I'm not the
23:09
baseball and sports world is one of routine you know twenty nine straight
23:13
years of kind of doing the same thing the universal and I mean that in the
23:18
most literal sense challenge that we're all facing is one that has massively
23:23
interrupted you know that world and then on top of that the racial and social
23:30
justice movement which is you know so necessary and and I will say this if you
23:36
could ever look through the lens of Canada I moved here five years ago and
23:40
if you could ever see what race looks like at least in the City of Toronto I
23:44
think without being able to undo history and systemic issues you know there is
23:51
hope currently my children have been raised second that their lives without
23:56
a framework or thought of race and color and ethnicity and international issues
24:01
that's what that exists here so there is hope I know I think it's hard to undo
24:07
history hard to undo injustice particularly the ultimate injustice of
24:12
bondage and that to Native Americans but I'm hopeful I'm being here it gives me
24:18
hope when I think about my job the first thing I think about is protecting the
24:24
five hundred and thirteen hundred people that work for us in a time of
24:28
uncertainty and anxiety that we all face and we're not when Alan reference triage
24:34
it's how do we just take care of our people first the ability to think about
24:41
the long term of our business which is exactly what you're talking about and
24:46
what Alan referenced as far as attention spans changing the game recognizing what
24:53
not just sports live entertainment the live entertainment industry is going to
24:59
be destroyed is disrupted and will be massively changed in the short term it
25:06
was already undergoing a massive long-term change because of attention
25:11
spans because of mobility because of Technology and a lot of those lines
25:15
between accessibility and how do you grow fan bases and how do you step
25:23
outside of tradition and how do you understand what it truly means to
25:28
embrace court and bring in new communities and new fans is a lot of
25:35
what we were thinking about Joanna when we're thinking about long term I will be
25:39
honest with you I'm not thinking long term right now I'm thinking survival
25:43
right now you know but all of my efforts within my industry cap on this the
25:49
competition committee - the strategic planning committee about the ownership
25:53
groups have been focused on answering those questions what does what does
25:57
entertainment and the sport look like inside of the stadium how do we think
26:01
about distribution you know of our entertainment outside of the stadium how
26:06
do we define community because that word is very different
26:09
we define family without putting traditional labels on those things and
26:13
how do we make our environment one that is not just interesting or welcoming but
26:20
compelling for people to come and I think baseball is the one professional
26:25
sport that does offer a sense of community within the stadium it's it's
26:31
diverse here for the game which is not very diverse in a fan base
26:36
but it's also one that plays out slowly without a lot of loud noise and allows
26:41
for interaction and kind of fosters conversation in between around the key
26:46
so I know I rambled and I know I didn't kind of directly address your point but
26:51
it's so hard to address your point with the realities of the backdrop of the
26:55
world right now and those are the things I'm kind of hierarchy you know I'm
27:00
working through a hierarchy of protect mental health protect our people their
27:04
well-being their ability to protect you know to feed their families and kind of
27:08
continue at every level of our organization protect and ensure our
27:14
business has any level of sustainability and weight of this you know massive
27:19
reality and then with what little time is left I can get back to thinking about
27:24
the long-term viability and which I can talk about because it's all we were
27:28
thinking about prior to this disruption does that make sense [Joanna] absolutely and I
27:33
think you speak to a lot of what we're hearing from our attendees today which
27:36
is how do I focus long-term when I just need to focus on staying alive at this
27:41
point Tally I want to recognize your hand
27:45
your digital hand [Tally] yes thank you I'd like to follow up on that and and
27:51
say that I think that we should think of culture and tourism in the creative
27:58
industries and design and sports together because all of them create
28:04
spillover of culture onto productivity and education and forms of human social
28:12
and cultural capital and this is what's being disrupted now and this is why we
28:17
have a change to think about as Peter said restore
28:23
institutions in a different way and Amaka talked about community
28:28
stewardship community governance but we have to be aware of the significant
28:36
institutional barriers and those are really really difficult to overcome and
28:43
these barriers create inequalities in the way individuals are able to
28:49
translate or convert their cultural competencies to educational occupational
28:54
social benefits especially in times of crisis and this is the the danger of the
29:00
reproduction of privilege so we have to really concentrate on the crisis as an
29:07
opportunity to change these institutions and the way they work another point I
29:14
wanted to raise maybe to inject some optimism I think it is perhaps too early
29:22
to say that but I'm going to speculate and bear with me on that I think that
29:30
the the new situation we are in calls for rethinking some of the dichotomies
29:35
or binary formulations we've been working with the dichotomies between
29:41
consumers and producers because all of a sudden we see consumers of culture
29:48
turning into producers of culture in their homes that they caught to me
29:54
between urban and rural is being blurred between culture that is done online and
30:02
offline and even the dichotomy between high-brow culture and low-brow culture
30:08
all these are being blurred and perhaps the bright side is that formalized forms
30:16
of cultural participation now make way to more home base and family based forms
30:23
so if we think of culture in the broadest sense playing sports playing
30:30
cards board games online cultural consumptions of plays and operas and
30:36
children taking drawing lessons via zoom arts and crafts creating meals
30:45
writing blogs all of these are all of a sudden received a much more important
30:51
position in people's eyes and maybe this is a way to for us to start rethinking
30:59
the way we bring communities together around joint cultural products projects
31:06
and trying to think of ways to change some of these institutions and systems
31:11
[Peter] totally I agree but wasn't that all happening for the last couple decades I
31:17
mean you may be right that as I said earlier it's sort of an accelerant right
31:20
now but that those blurring and that disintermediation of culture such that
31:26
the institution plays not always a central role anymore it has been a long
31:32
along upwelling [Tally] well it really depends on the context
31:38
and in some countries it's really not very significant because these
31:43
situations are extremely strong extremely conservative and extremely
31:47
stable [Peter] hmm [Tally] but also there's the point of acceleration and thinks processes that
31:54
have been happening for the the past decade or five years all of a sudden are
31:59
bursting and yeah maybe this is something we can you elaborate on later
32:03
[Joanna] Alan [Alan] Joanna I'm maybe I'm moving forward too quickly here but I um you
32:14
know we we have known for so long that we need new models you know it's been
32:22
widely acknowledged yet we don't have them and you know the the cultural norms
32:33
Tally is talking about they're so hard to change you know who was it who
32:39
famously said there's nothing worse than you know wasting a crisis and you know
32:48
there will be people who say you know can we just solve one crisis at a time
32:51
can we get back to kind of not you know normal and frankly at the beginning of
32:56
this I was very skeptical about all the people running around like chicken
33:00
little saying oh it's all gonna be completely different now I thought
33:03
really because actually a lot of consumers just want to get back to
33:09
consuming what they used to consume before the pandemic hit because now the
33:14
normals you know returning to normalcy is such a prized thing but over the the
33:22
the past sort of month and a half it's really really become apparent to me that
33:27
actually you know now is the time for paradigmatic change and and and you know
33:37
the the conditions in which paradigmatic change are possible are so rare right
33:42
Adrienne Ellis calls it the Overton Window you know why do you know people
33:47
are able to have conversations they were able to have previously but we've you
33:54
know we've been having these conversations so you know I just want to
33:57
put like a couple of issues on the table like facilities like Mark you got
34:03
facilities right they are fixed boy are they fixed you know they change every 50
34:11
years maybe and we got facilities our facilities were designed with a certain
34:18
kind of experience for a certain kind of people in line and they're not suiting
34:24
us very well many of them you know and I think now you know now would be the time
34:32
for us to challenge the community of architects and designers and
34:40
acousticians and theater consults that actually reimagine cultural facilities
34:45
with equity in mind so that we don't have for another thirty years you know
34:56
two thousand seat auditorium is designed for white art you know how do we break
35:03
that chain so you know I want to get that on the table and then you know this
35:09
is this need for new models like deconstructing I mean I've been
35:12
listening to webinars which you know by different fields and you know it's very
35:22
clear that now is the time actually for us to be experimenting with new new
35:27
models that address what Amaka says is you know collective ownership new
35:36
models of collective ownership like what does that look like like what does what
35:41
does a music producing organization look like based on collective ownership you
35:47
know is it an orchestra is it an opera you know what does a community like
35:53
Detroit need from an opera company you know it's
35:59
so I would call on on Philanthropy to create greenhouse sites where where we
36:07
can experiment with new models wipe it out remove the risk of failure and try
36:14
something new and do it in multiple locations and stop making one site
36:21
one-off experiments grant funded experiments you know so sorry I don't
36:27
mean to indict philanthropy here they're doing so much to help but I really think
36:33
we have to get practical here about entering a space where we can experiment
36:39
with institutional models and facilities you know that will propel us forward as
36:45
a field [Peter] and Alan I just want to add I agree with what you're putting on the
36:52
table and it's really important I think that the new models of governance of
36:56
sort of service need to precede the buildings by a long way meaning it's
37:02
premature to be talking to the architects at the moment you're teeing
37:07
up the whole sequence of briefings and I just want to acknowledge that idea I've
37:12
been learning over the last couple months that restarting is not the main
37:17
goal here right it can't be because then we missed the entire sort of impulse
37:22
that that the black lives matter unrest and and tragedies have forced to deform
37:28
but which we're there to begin with meaning if we're not going to transform
37:32
now we're never going to transform and the arts the cultural sector has this I
37:36
guess what I'm grappling with as a researcher is that you know when we do
37:41
these studies and we see how white the lists the networks the participating
37:47
communities if you will of cultural organisations across this country rural
37:51
urban large small they're incredibly whiter than the population now of course
37:57
there are exceptions but the general theme that we've discovered to our you
38:04
know horror in this national study that we're in the midst of is is the question
38:10
because if if the problems right now or a cultural
38:13
racism is clearly a cultural problem justice is gonna be a cultural
38:17
discussion so so then what does the cultural sector need to do and right now
38:24
it's starting from a position of historical lack of standing because of
38:28
this disproportionate why is it's not serving all communities equitably it
38:33
never has so I mean I want to I want to get back to baseball to for a second but
38:41
Alan any any thoughts about that or Joanna [Joanna] I'll let Alan take it then I want to move it to Amaka she's had
38:50
[Alan] I yield to Amaka [Joanna] okay Amaka
38:58
[Nwamaka] thank you I am I think what is coming up for me because we were kind of dancing
39:04
around it but I think we just need to talk about it pointedly it's the
39:08
question of our culture our cultural craves profit right so many of the
39:15
different spaces and we talk about culture sitting within institutions but
39:20
who is profiting and where's that money being made and then who who is
39:24
ultimately accumulating level of wealth and power off of that culture I would
39:28
say that you know this piece around what happens to cultural preservation when
39:33
were all kind of sheltering in place for me you know as someone who was raised
39:38
Nigerian American I always experienced my cultures and my traditions within my
39:42
home with my family or directly with my community was never something I'm that I
39:47
expected to walk out into the street and to see replicated or celebrated and kind
39:52
of a majority white society and so all this to say is I think the opportunity
39:59
to actually look to those cultural producers or those spaces in which
40:03
undocumented immigrant communities black communities that have been heavily
40:07
policed all those places where communities have been alienated and
40:12
dislocated from the rest of society to understand well how have they maintained
40:16
culture and traditions in ways of being together in spite of the ways on that
40:21
unfortunately they have not been able to necessarily profit off of their culture
40:25
and so you know for me an example of this is you know I grew up other than
40:30
the hip hop the hip hop culture of graffiti and breakdancing and an MC
40:38
rapping and those are all things that were heavily policed and criminalized in
40:42
so then says see I'm the mayor of DC doing a placemaking project where they
40:47
kind of paint on black lives matters and yellow words you know pointing down to
40:52
the White House to kind of see a graffiti something that has been
40:56
criminalized right also now being a place where we're using it to make a
40:59
political statement I think is is interesting to once again figure out
41:04
where are those places where we've seen art and culturally engaged in deciding
41:08
these particular ways and unfortunately they may have not been
41:11
profitable they've helped to kind of push and create shift so when we once
41:16
again I I think it was Peter who that raised the question of how do we start
41:21
to really rethink the facilities and the spaces I think that there's learning I'm
41:26
that we can look to and so so much of the ways oftentimes we can be trained is
41:31
to kind of create something new but actually I think we get to reclaim what
41:36
we call the Sankofa the going back and learning from and so I think for me the
41:41
other piece that's coming up and Mark I would say I definitely empathize with
41:46
the sports industry as someone who you know I ran track and field in college
41:51
I couldn't imagine running a race with an empty stadium like it just doesn't
41:55
have the same push you're not gonna PR set a personal record in that
41:59
environment and all that to say so much of where arts or sports has existed has
42:05
been in the private sector and so what does it look like to also kind of engage
42:11
people who have disproportionately accumulated wealth throughout the
42:15
vertical of that industry what does it look like to also kind of engage it in
42:19
more of a public sector realm when we think about who now owns the stadium who
42:24
carries the debt on these stadiums many of them being cities that cannot be used
42:28
or are being repurposed for public health spaces and they should be but I
42:32
think the opportunity once again to hopefully engage the community the
42:38
broader community the public there and also rethinking the use of
42:42
these facilities how to support the seasonal workers that help to sustain
42:45
those facilities and then then how to engage the specific athletes themself is
42:51
an opportunity to to think about the sports industry not just being
42:56
individual wealth of building right but also kind of continuing to deepen
43:00
culture and deepen the engagement of community more broadly [Joanna] thanks to Amaka
43:05
Tally I want to push it over to you because you have something to say I see
43:10
[Tally] thank you I think that the question whether things will go back to normal is
43:18
you know the question that all of us are obsessed about these days and
43:23
policymakers are dying to know what will happen whether people will just go back
43:31
to participating in full force in consumer culture and doing whatever they
43:35
were doing before the pandemic but a general potential consequence
43:44
consequence of of covid 19 is for example generalized aversion to large
43:51
crowds like we have in concert hall in cultural events sporting events
43:58
ceremonies Markets political protests all these brings many people together in
44:04
public places and in the immediate future these gatherings will be
44:09
restricted and what will happen long term will people develop permanent
44:15
aversion to large public gatherings and this is important because it means that
44:21
we might have to change how cities are designed and some of you have already
44:26
alluded to so the special organization of cultural activities within a country
44:31
within a region is highly likely to change for example also because of
44:37
domestic demand because we can't travel abroad as we used to the balance between
44:45
rural and urban areas could shift as regions outside big cities have been
44:51
suffering from drain of human and financial resources but
44:55
perhaps now can become an important places for social experiments so I agree
45:03
that it's really a wonderful opportunity for us to I would say like I would use
45:12
the title of an OECD document that was published three days ago the title is
45:19
building back better so we want to build back we want to rebuild what we have to
45:27
put our minds together around how to do that better for example by using big
45:35
data engineering of data redistributing funds and subsidies and strengths of
45:44
different regions in the country and I think that what is going to change
45:49
perhaps permanent permanently is that people are going to require two things
45:55
safety and Trust trust will be very important the demand for safety will be
46:03
very important and I think this will have significant consequence for the way
46:08
we rebuild those cultural institutions [Joanna] thanks Tally I just want to remind the
46:16
audience the attendees that you can send in questions via Twitter or email I'm
46:21
starting to get some now so I do want to turn over to some of those but I wanted
46:26
to ask you about new models new structures new systems because that's
46:30
what a lot of the questions that are actually coming from our attendees are
46:33
asking about you've talked all about a lot of them you've talked about
46:37
Amaka you talked about this isn't new but it's something that the cultural the
46:42
cultural sector is not as familiar with the idea that we practice our culture
46:47
and our traditions in our homes right I think this relates very much to what we
46:51
have been hearing from the sports industry about the idea of no fans in
46:55
the stadiums right we Alan you talked you used the word audience but you used
47:02
yet a kind of a general kind of version to that term so maybe we start using a
47:06
new term philanthropic experiments Alan you also
47:10
mentioned so I want to just ask the panel and this is related to a question
47:15
we got from Bente Bouthier with WFIU sorry for that name pronunciation but what do
47:22
you suggest that different venues organizations consider as they adapt and
47:28
look for new models to reach people to reach their communities and what unique
47:32
problems do these types of organizations and venues face and anybody can feel
47:38
free to jump in here [Peter] well this is sort of meta but I would say that the framing
47:43
of the question is that the organization slash venue makes the decisions and
47:48
that's exactly what I think is at stake in what comes next
47:51
it's certainly what you pointed us to Amaka and it's what Bamuthi
47:55
earlier this morning talks about there's got to be a
48:00
sense of collectivism in the decision-making around what constitutes
48:05
relevance what constitutes service and and all of that is culture [Joanna] Amaka you have
48:11
something to say [Nwamaka] yeah I wanted to jump in and Mark would love for your for your
48:17
thoughts on this because I from me I think the pieces who gets to decide and
48:21
how are we deciding together and so early on when it was clear we weren't
48:27
going to have the rest of the NBA season there was a back-and-forth between even
48:31
Stephan curry and also LeBron James kind of sharing the reflections on like would
48:36
we play with no state with no fans in a stadium or would we not and and then you
48:40
know overall the NBA coming down and saying like we will make that decision
48:44
right and so part of me really fits with who gets to make the decision what does
48:49
it look like to engage the athletes around this piece of safety and Trust
48:52
that Tally has lifted up when will they feel safe enough when will they actually
48:56
engage in a collective trust that we actually won't um play if we're not
49:00
feeling well enough to actually be with our with our teammates what does it look
49:05
like to have workers or vendors that support those facilities also engage in
49:10
that same level of safety and trust and understanding once again that if they
49:15
can't come into those spaces um that they will still be cared for right
49:19
because so much of this is about so the
49:21
about the loss of income because unfortunately we don't have that social
49:24
safety net and so my five is actually kind of curious around are there
49:29
conversations happening in the sports industry about how do we engage athletes
49:34
how do we engage the workers and making the collective decisions for the
49:37
industry of the post to get the owners [Mark]yeah I mean it's a very that's actually
49:44
an easy question to answer it does get a little bit back to Tally
49:48
and saying you know Trust is such an important part it's part of what you
49:53
know keeps me up at night about the future of Major League Baseball is that
49:57
there is such a lack of trust between the players in the and the league I'm
50:00
not an owner by the way I'm an operator not an owner but I think that's probably
50:06
the pervasive issue and there is this systemic and historical root to that
50:11
lack of trust as well Amaka but there's a 67 page health protocol
50:16
document that Major League Baseball came up with and literally you know walks
50:20
through and then that was handed over to the Players Association or the unions
50:24
and say how do you feel about this that was handed to every public health
50:29
organization in all 30 communities and said how do you feel about this that's
50:33
big replies and so yeah there's a collaborative working document that
50:37
talks about not even thinking about fans yet just players when we think about
50:43
practice reimagining our practice facilities reimagining travel protocol
50:48
reimagining on-field protocol from everything from not high-fiving not
50:54
spitting you know to the way we travel and I don't want to get granular and
51:01
boring but yes that's been a collaborative effort I think there are a
51:05
host of other problems that exist I've got other feelings on the building
51:10
conversation you're having but those are all again they pre-exists
51:14
a lot of the challenges that you know Peter referred to and Alan has referred
51:18
to but a Amaka directly related to that I think one it gets back to its how he
51:23
said like any successful you effort you know it has to be renewed and respect
51:28
and trust between the athletes who are you know the drivers of the business and
51:35
and the league or the ownership that are operating you know many many of them by
51:41
the way very socially conscious and and focused you know in their communities as
51:47
well community is one of the reasons a lot of owners buy a team is to help
51:51
positively impact the community not just turn a profit
51:54
not all but a lot that I've come in contact with but that takes you know
52:01
trust that takes alignment usually in the world that we live in in North
52:06
America that takes aligning incentive as well right there has to be an alignment
52:10
of incentive that it benefits everyone because trust me no matter how
52:14
incredible those people are you know they're still also thinking about how
52:18
does it affect me and and the things and things that that are at stake for me and
52:24
my but thank you for asking [Tally] may I [Joanna] go ahead [Tally] if we think of possible solutions or systemic
52:38
reforms I would say that one thing is to bring Wireless or broadband connectivity
52:46
everywhere this is really important and we see it now the other thing is that as
52:57
Mark said we see that the culture of the creative industries are in need of
53:02
rescuing and they are in survival mode but they are also a part of the solution
53:10
and they are also a tool for creating and contributing to the solution and I
53:17
will use a phrase suggested by Tony Itard who's a cultural policy analyst
53:23
from Malta he said artists are the front liners of the soul and they have to be
53:32
part of the solution we have to work together with artists and with the
53:38
stakeholders in all these industries to build the solutions and this for example
53:44
means linking in went in culture and the arts to broader
53:49
social outcomes related to cohesion to inclusion to equality and if we want to
53:59
to ask what this means it could mean for example making sure there's artistic
54:05
freedom to create an express making sure that all parts of the country in all
54:10
urban neighborhoods have equal access to the full range of cultural facilities
54:16
making sure that there are opportunities open to civil society and to cultural
54:21
sector professionals to participate in decision-making processes related to
54:27
cultural activities [Joanna] thanks Tally and this you know I'm getting some questions from
54:34
the attendance from the attendees really pushing for practical models so we
54:42
talked about systemic and structural change and new models but do we have
54:48
examples can anyone point to really specific
54:52
examples for arts and cultural organizations of what are the new models
54:56
that they should be thinking about implementing in their organizations in
55:01
their work [Alan] on that thought you know one of the practices that is so
55:16
difficult to move in our sector is the process of artistic decision making in
55:24
institutions it speaks directly to what Amaka referred to as who you know who's
55:30
at the table who is you know and and ultimately to the idea of
55:34
self-determination and we have in most institutions such consolidated
55:40
decision-making where we somehow got the idea decades ago that one individual
55:46
would have complete artistic control over an institution and would have the
55:53
breadth of knowledge and experience to make
55:59
you know to green light or red light everything and I think what we're you
56:03
know we're seeing actually before Covid is slow slow dismantling of that and the
56:12
specific example I'd give is is the San Francisco Symphony when they announced
56:17
their new artistic director also announced a whole number of advisors who
56:25
have specific depth of cultural expertise I thought okay that's you know
56:30
that's a step in the right direction of welcoming a plurality of voices into our
56:39
institutions now that's not to say that we don't need to actually you know
56:43
question the institutions themselves and their structure but a good start and I'm
56:50
sure there are other examples you know people can think of where we're starting
56:56
to see the breaking down of consolidation of power in artistic
57:04
decision-making but that's gonna die really really hard [Peter] I agree and I would
57:12
I'm not sure if the person who asked that question is aware of what Nina
57:16
Simon and her colleagues are doing OF/BY/FOR ALL movement ofbyforall.org there
57:22
are models there that are about sort of a more distributed collaborative notion
57:27
of generation of relevance and programmatic decision making but Alan I
57:33
agree it's not going to be easy for some same kinds of organizations [Nwamaka] I'm happy to
57:39
jump in and offer some examples um so I have had the pleasure of building a
57:44
relationship with the Center for cultural innovation led by Angie Kim and
57:49
they have this ambitious program the ambitious program is really supported in
57:54
focuses in on supporting artists cultural workers over cross a broad
58:00
definition right of how we understand culture to really lift up what are the
58:04
models that allow them to have ownership over the production of their work over
58:09
the way they structure their business model and so
58:13
they have projects like the East Bay permanent real estate cooperative that
58:16
is really looking at culture more I'm like how do we rethink our culture of
58:21
housing right how do we also shift people's understanding around what it
58:24
means to have access to dignified housing and then how do we actually
58:27
structure the business model and then how do we finance the resource of
58:31
projects so they're able to kind of move away from a speculative real estate
58:36
Market to how we understand housing to something that is actually cooperative
58:40
and I think this kind of I first sorry I forget what it was Alan or Peter who
58:45
suggested the role of philanthropy and while you know someone who works in the
58:50
philanthropic sector I think there's many good things we can do even though
58:54
we're not a perfect field one of the good things that I see emerging in
58:58
philanthropy is a move towards into what we call integrated capital or mission
59:02
aligned investing and so for philanthropic institutions that are moving not just
59:07
grants but also investment capital in non extractive ways that are able to
59:13
feed and support some of these initiatives so that we're not just
59:16
resourcing them to produce arts we're resourcing them so that they can own
59:20
their art I think another example I would lift up is a dear friend of mine
59:25
Alan Frimpong who is with who helped create the ... collective and so it's a
59:30
cooperatively owned black artist collective bringing together black
59:33
artists across the country but through a cooperative model and so I think some of
59:38
those mechanisms are ways that we're seeing people figure out how to lean
59:42
into the collective shared prosperity of how they structure their business model
59:46
and then how we currently support each other as a community of artists of
59:51
cultural workers [Peter] yes and Amaka some of where that the whole ethos you're
59:56
describing has sort of infiltrated in a great way I don't mean that pejoratively
60:00
the cultural sector is in the under the rubric of creative placemaking which I
60:05
know Sunil Iyengar mentioned in the previous panel that movement has been
60:09
broadly and messily incubating some of those strategies that you're talking
60:14
about which I think are tremendoudly exciting [Joanna] so Amaka your your comment is really relevant to the next question
60:22
that came in which is from our "Backstage @ AEI" room how do how do we
60:26
re-envision relationships between workers and organizations and what about
60:30
more unionization and I know Mark this is something that you're dealing with
60:35
probably a lot in in your sector so anyone who wants to jump in to answer
60:39
that question [Alan] well that would be the third rail of discourse yeah I guess
60:49
that's never stopped me but I mean a blessing and a curse we you know Amaka
60:57
talked about exploitation of workers contributing to economic injustice and
61:03
we have exploitation of workers in the cultural sector we just call them
61:09
teaching artists but we have woefully underpaid artists and then we have
61:17
fabulously compensated artists and artistic leaders paid millions so we
61:27
have you know and then we have the
61:32
artists who are fortunate enough to be have union representation making really
61:40
really wonderful salaries and and having all sorts of
61:44
protections and those and then there's those who don't so that inequities we
61:51
have within our art so maybe the answer is more unionization I mean certainly
61:57
that's been a recent trend there are plenty of people who think that would be
62:02
disastrous and there are other people who think it's a solution [Peter] right I'm not
62:10
sure about the means but the end is the same thing we've been talking about on
62:14
the audience and community level which is inclusion we can include the artists
62:18
and the we shifts from we management including harness to something again
62:24
more collectivist that's the progressive ethos then I think we have an
62:28
opportunity to seize now because of these crises or one unified crisis Mark
62:34
everything you said about the challenges and questions that you're
62:38
grappling with all kind of perfect metaphor for what's going on in
62:43
some of the performing arts for example you you work with the league you know
62:48
Major League Baseball but the league in my world is the League of American or
62:51
Orchestras and they've been having I mean you could change a few words and
62:55
what you said a few minutes ago it's a perfect map on to this I wonder when you
63:02
emphasize things like you know comfort of the audience to return whether we're
63:09
also whether we need a broader definition of comfort that seems to be
63:12
inclined and someone what's been said by the rest of you because we've known in
63:17
at least in the arts we've known for decades that many people don't feel
63:21
comfortable in our spaces so there's some irony in this valorizing of you
63:27
know we need to make sure people are comfortable so they will come back what
63:30
about the people that weren't there in the first place right the fact that we
63:33
could dismiss their discomfort even though empirically through
63:37
researchers like Alan and myself and so many evaluators and researchers in the
63:41
field we knew it we didn't we didn't act on it as a field because those were
63:46
uneducated people or non-white people or somehow less important to the field than
63:53
the people who were do you have anything like that parallel I mean [Mark] yeah I
64:01
mean this might be a rather mundane response in light of the levity of this
64:05
conversation you know but we were already having gone through a major
64:10
renovation where ironically on Indians and undergoing a consideration of a
64:16
whole new stadium project here and thinking about live entertainment and
64:19
stadium experience and how consumers take in entertainment sport you know
64:27
everything the basically in the most simplistic way the evolution of the
64:35
stadium and ball park experience and I adore experiencing engaged theater
64:40
architects as well when we thought about things you know changing the experience
64:45
from one experience from one seat I'm sorry the same experience and the only
64:51
thing that changes is the seat you sit at the vantage point
64:54
to a very targeted community-based segmented you know range of experiences
65:00
throughout a stadium so that different people that want to experience a
65:04
baseball game in different ways have a wealth of offerings or whatever makes
65:10
them most comfortable and inclusiveness is a part of that as well but it's
65:15
thinking about you know where the family go that they feel safe from people who
65:20
are not wanting to experience the game in the same way whereas the baseball
65:23
traditionalist though that still wants to sit for pencil on a scorecard where
65:27
does a young person go actually doesn't want to watch the game just wants to be
65:31
at the game and with their community and those are very again I'm almost
65:36
embarrassed you can talk about those things in light of the more important
65:39
social issues that are going on the backdrop of this call but when I think
65:43
about you know those were things we were already thinking about and talking about
65:46
those are things if you go to best-in-class Stadium design they call
65:51
the sections of your ballparks neighborhoods that's what they call it
65:55
they call them neighborhoods because they are designed to make people feel
65:58
part of the community they're designed to make people want to be there and I
66:03
don't think we have the luxury and again I'm comfortable saying in the
66:07
entertainment industry and the live entertainment industry whether it's a
66:11
festival whether it's a concert whether it is theatre whatever it is we don't
66:16
have the we do not have a long-term luxury of just saying just doing what we
66:22
do is good enough for sustainability I think we need to think about the word
66:27
compelling how do we create compelling experiences because the nature of
66:32
mobility and then the nature of the desire not to leave our home or our you
66:40
know support network but this is even more relevant with what we're going
66:44
undergoing right now and the nature of the fact that we can get every single
66:47
thing we need right here and don't have to go anywhere means that we have to
66:52
differentiate our experience you have to think very open-minded very creative and
66:56
we have to think about being more inclusive we're not limited to the same
67:01
audience we've always been limited to so I'm trying to expand what already is
67:05
in my head but I can tell you A Peter you're already there we're aware of that
67:10
B I think that this just accentuates that reality and then C I want to get
67:16
back to tally though that I am still hopeful I still feel sport culture
67:21
provides a path back to normalcy provides a sense of hope I am optimistic
67:28
I just think that the path from here to there is going to be a a tough one for
67:33
all of us it's gonna take time and it's going to take open-mindedness which is
67:38
really a spirit of this call which is that we need to be open-minded we can't
67:43
be trapped in the models that we've thought about for so long and that are
67:47
in our case our interests our profitable industry largely because being content
67:53
for media has provided us the ability to kind of live in so that's a mouthful but
67:58
that's my thoughts for you [Joanna] Tally I'll let you jump in here [Tally] thank you I think it's becoming
68:06
evident that the sectors we're talking about will be hit hard we're seeing
68:12
statistics that one in eight museums may never reopen and the same goes for other
68:18
cultural organizations it's going to be very difficult for people who work there
68:23
and for the consumers and again I would like to emphasize that one one solution
68:33
one example of how to deal with that is those mediated interactions we mentioned
68:39
so digital technology is becoming more important and more prevalent mediating
68:46
between the consumer and the artwork or the cultural activity or the sports
68:53
event and this is why again Internet connectivity internet literacy is going
69:02
to be extremely important as well as rethinking the spatial distribution
69:08
which I already mentioned because this is an opportunity for people rather than
69:15
to go to the big city to visit the museum to see a dance company that they
69:23
like and so on they might prefer spending time in their
69:27
neighborhoods in their local cultural initiatives take part in local events
69:38
and and and further develop what's happening in their own neighborhood city
69:44
region etc and I think this is something practical that we can think about and we
69:50
can strengthen and this is a reasonable solution to some of the problems that we
69:56
raised [Joanna] thanks Tally I want to end with one
70:01
last question for the whole panel that came from an attendee but we've talked
70:05
about changes we've talked about new systems what happens tomorrow we get a
70:11
vaccine and we go back to the way that life was what's our time frame for
70:18
making these changes or if we don't have a long time frame or if we don't know
70:23
how do we make sure that these changes get made [Alan] well that's really a question
70:31
about leadership Joanna in spiritual moral aesthetic cultural leadership you
70:43
know we have so much of it in our sector but perhaps it's not organized as well
70:48
as it needs to be you know a topic for another day Joanna is is how does our
70:57
sector respond to the research needs in an emergency you know Peter and I are
71:05
sitting here because we took initiative but if we waited to you know to do this
71:14
you know that our sectors need for information should not depend on Alan's
71:19
rolodex or Peters rolodex or what the people at a particular foundation in New
71:23
York are smoking on a given day you know we we need better policy
71:29
see we need you know policy-driven leadership we have the leaders so you
71:36
know if things if we get a vaccine and things open back up you know you know we
71:41
need to have the leadership to say wait a minute we need new models and we need
71:46
them now and we actually need to experiment outside of the nonprofit
71:51
system which Amaka is something I know that Angie Kim is doing at the Center
71:57
for cultural innovation is so important is to not take than the 501 C 3 as the
72:02
be-all and end-all of cultural production so anyway I think we can do
72:07
it but it's going to take kind of leadership
72:12
[Joanna] Peter [Peter] I hope that in a way the question is about whether the white
72:17
haven't been turned on about our sort of standing as I said earlier or our
72:23
complicity as a field as a history as a category that is derived from European
72:28
definitions right that the cultural sector won't be able to turn that light
72:33
off because the changes and the sort of utility that may flow from those changes
72:39
could be enormous enormous it's just it's enormously important that we don't
72:46
treat this as a kind of odd moment due to the pandemic that when the pandemic
72:51
recedes will also recede and I guess I'm not sure that's any different from what
72:56
Alan is just saying but I think there's right now I'm seeing two kinds of you
73:00
know leaders and those who are willing to do the hard work of reflection and go
73:04
beyond the rhetoric of saying into the New York Times when you're interviewed and
73:09
those who are really sort of putting at stake and on the table their
73:14
institutional prerogatives and their kind of historical consolidation of
73:20
power and you know where my heart lies right I mean I think the benefits and
73:26
innovations are all going to be on one side of that equation
73:31
[Tally] I absolutely agree with both Alan and
73:37
Peter leadership is really important but also citizenship and activism and I
73:42
think we're saying of that I think that the fact that this
73:45
is a global issue global crisis works to our advantage
73:49
because we're all feeling the consequences and all over the world
73:53
people like ours have been sitting for many weeks now trying to figure out
73:59
what's next and what can be done and how to rebuild and how to rehabilitate and
74:05
also the fact that that restoring the cultural sector the creative industries
74:14
has tremendous economic consequences also works to our advantage
74:19
because those interests will be very difficult to ignore when economic
74:26
interests are also at play [Joanna] Mark any last words [Mark] I mean I the only thing I probably
74:36
said is obviously I'm a big believer in the power of leadership and what it can
74:41
do and I feel like vaccine or not that we've undergone a concurrent set of
74:47
conditions that have created momentum and that that is not going to be a lot
74:54
of positive momentum that's going to force people to reconsider a lot of
74:59
things rather than just revert back to normal and I think that I think and I
75:04
guess I get I get back to my optimistic side my hopeful side that I feel like
75:08
there is momentum for positive change certainly within North America right now
75:14
but as Tally mentions this is this is a global we are in this in a truly global
75:19
community together and so I just don't think things are gonna flip back to
75:24
normal regardless of what that means my capitstic sense or any other sense I
75:28
think that we are all we have all been forced to reconsider so deeply so many
75:34
things and then concurrent with that the social movement that is is pervasive in
75:40
all of our minds and all of our hearts and souls right now so that I feel like
75:45
combined we've kind of crossed a threshold that we're not going back you
75:51
know the way things were a new abnormal or whatever that looks like I tend to
75:57
believe and be foolish that it's going to be a better one it's going to take
76:01
time it's going to take effort and it certainly has to coincide with the
76:04
incentives that we all live with as realities but I'm hopeful I'm optimistic I
76:09
guess I didn't with that [Joanna] thank you Mark and last Amaka sure I started by closing
76:17
comments with once again with Mark I just want to offer you know as someone
76:22
who really once again enjoys this sport so that for me one of the reasons it was
76:27
actually important to have the sports industry sector conversation alongside
76:31
this one is that unfortunately right I don't I wish it wasn't this way the
76:36
sports sector from football to NBA to baseball so many other sports has been
76:42
one of the very few arenas where black indigenous communities of color have
76:47
actually seen themselves prominently represented right and so when I take my
76:52
my godson to an Oakland A's game and he got to see Coco Crisp laid that moved
76:57
him and so that's also why these conversations are extremely important I
77:02
live 10 minutes away from the A's stadium and that's one of the very few
77:05
places where young black people who live in deep East Oakland can feel like they
77:10
can gather safely so I just want to say I don't want to actually trivialize this
77:15
piece about the sports industry I do think it's really important in terms of
77:18
what it is meant and hopefully you know these conversations are on racial equity
77:22
will continue to grow and I think to finally - this piece around like what
77:26
happens if we get a vaccine I think everybody has said it but I will just
77:31
echo it we we know so much more now than we did earlier this year and so if we
77:38
actually choose to kind of go back to what once was we are walking away from
77:41
the values that I've heard so many of us speak to the values that our institution
77:47
claimed to uphold and so the opportunity to continue to push our institutions
77:52
further the operation operationalize their values into the business model how
77:57
they engage with consumers and producers is essential and so with this I would
78:01
you know there's two questions that I always leave my clients with the first
78:06
question being to make the decision and how are those
78:10
decisions being made right it's always really being able to understand who has
78:14
the power and while we're implementing and then the up there piece being who is
78:18
financially benefiting and how are they financially benefiting why are they
78:23
benefiting off the extraction exploitation of somebody else's labor or
78:26
they actually engage in shared sharing of revenue and profits and those two
78:31
pieces oftentimes help us to really then understand are we replicating the
78:35
systems where white wealthy individuals continue to benefit at the expense of
78:39
low-income marginalized communities or are we starting to move towards
78:43
something that's more equitable and more redistributed and so just want to thank
78:47
my panelists I thought this was a wonderful conversation Joanna thanks for
78:51
hosting us and I hope to continue more of it [Joanna] Thank You Amaka
78:55
thank you Mark Thank You Alan Tally and Peter [Tally] thank you [Joanna] such a lovely time this hour and
79:02
close to 20 minutes and I hope everybody who's watching will stick around for our
79:06
final panel which starts in about ten minutes
79:10
but thank you again everybody and we will continue this conversation offline
79:14
[Peter] thank you all [Tally] thanks [Mark] thank you [Alan] thank you
Description of the video:
00:03
[Doug] all right I think we are all here good afternoon and good morning and also good
00:10
evening to the various people around the world joining in on this roundtable very
00:15
glad to have you all here so there we go as we switch into a round table
00:21
mode perfect okay welcome this is our third round table I am really happy to
00:27
be here with it what I consider to be an all-star cast gathered for this
00:32
sure to be interesting conversation I'm Doug Noonan co-director here at the Arts,
00:37
Entrepreneurship, and Innovation Lab and I'm joined by three great economists and
00:43
we'll go around the virtual table here and let you introduce yourself very
00:48
briefly and then we'll get right into it so let's start with Tyler [Tyler] hello I'm
00:56
Tyler Cowen I'm professor of economics at George Mason University which is in
01:01
Northern Virginia I've been at my home now for quite some time I'm very happy
01:06
to be here and I've been working on the economics of the arts since the early
01:12
1990s thank you [Doug] perfect Thank You Tyler, Darrick
01:17
[Darrick] hi I am Darrick Hamilton and I'm the executive director of the Kirwan
01:23
Institute for the Study of race and ethnicity and I am a professor in a John
01:27
Glenn College of Public Affairs with courtesy appointments from the
01:31
department's of economics sociology and African and African American Studies
01:35
here at the Ohio State University [Doug] excellent thank you very much and we'll
01:41
go over to Jason now good afternoon everyone
01:46
[Jason] I'm Jason Potts I'm a professor of economics at RMIT University in sunny
01:51
Melbourne Australia and I am director of the blockchain innovation hub which is a
01:56
social science research institute studying blockchain but I also my
01:59
special area is innovation economics and I've been looking at the intersection
02:03
between the innovation economics and creative industries for the last ten
02:06
years thank you that's why we're here [Doug] all right and last but not least
02:10
Ruth [Ruth] right I'm professor of the economics of creative industries at born
02:16
with university in the UK I also have a connection to
02:21
the create Center in Glasgow I specialized in the economics of
02:28
copyright and cultural economics and I think that's all I need to say about
02:33
myself [Doug] thank you that's perfect and I would again say thank you to the people
02:39
who are not in the eastern or central time zones in the United States for
02:44
going out of their way to join us for this so start off quickly with the other
02:48
just go right into it with a question here for Darrick and it's really I've
02:52
wanted you to comment some more on what you see is some innovative routes to
02:56
healthier society and in particular there may be the arts and cultural
03:00
sector is where you see as viable or at least more viable changes and new paths
03:06
in light of the recent crises we're facing [Darrick] I think the path to a more
03:13
healthy society begins with an evolution to economic rights often times we think
03:19
of rights in terms of civil rights and political rights but if we really want
03:25
to enable people to fulfill their capacities and their creative side or
03:30
simply just have human dignity that we need to begin with a foundation of vital
03:36
resources that are so essential for their capabilities that we should not
03:42
leave exclusively to a for-profit sector whose incentive is just that profit but
03:49
rather I think there's a public responsibility to ensure that these
03:54
rights are universal and of a quality that people can have that and then you
04:02
know we can be specific and say exactly what those are and that would be the
04:06
right to not be hungry the right to shelter the right to healthcare and
04:11
these aren't just pie-in-the-sky things we can actually fulfill them so we can
04:16
think about things like a federal job guarantee we can guarantee housing for
04:20
everyone and variety of forms either through capital endowment so they can
04:25
purchase homes or coming up with a system of things like rent control etc
04:31
so I can keep going on and on about these various policies healthcare
04:35
Medicare for all but you know I can also point out that what might be keeping us
04:41
from having these type of this type of a society is narrative itself a narrative
04:47
that somehow markets and market eye solutions are the pathway towards a
04:54
better society and the biggest economic good for everyone I'd say that that
05:00
focus is not necessarily grounded in morality one way again we don't ensure
05:05
everyone has the essential goods and services that they need to thrive and
05:10
arts itself not only would be empowered by an economic rights frame but it is
05:16
the narratives themselves that come from artists that are leading to this social
05:21
unrest that we're seeing in the US right now you know the whole moniker of black
05:26
lives matter right is grounded in narrative and discourse and does not
05:30
come from social scientists but that simple statement of black lives matter
05:35
has iterated an empowered of movement that ultimately might get us to a place
05:40
where we can change society and everybody can have basic human dignity
05:44
so that they can thrive and whatever human endeavor that they desire
05:53
[Doug] great thank you so any of the panelists of course we feel free to jump in and
05:57
respond immediately to this and I also want to take this moment after this
06:00
great opening remarks from Darrick to invite everyone in the audience all the
06:05
attendees virtually to make sure to either email or tweet or if you're on
06:08
our "Backstage @ AEI" a zoom room put in questions that way but let's let's jump
06:14
over it to Tyler [Tyler] one of my great worries at the current moment is how difficult
06:19
it is for so many individuals in the performing arts to make a living
06:24
especially if they've been doing live performance and I know this is a much
06:28
smaller topic than what Darrick raised as long as infectiousness is such a high
06:34
risk I'm not sure there's any solution to that but as things to improve or
06:38
vaccine comes it strikes me that Alan peacocks idea of cultural vouchers that
06:44
you would hand out to consumers I've always had an interest in this idea but
06:48
I think the case for it right now is much stronger than it ever has been
06:52
because there will be an aggregate demand problem in the economy at the
06:56
macro level there will be an issue of a lot of organizational capital being in
07:01
non-profit groups or also commercial groups and you don't want all those ties
07:05
all that capital to be destroyed so you could contribute to solving your macro
07:10
problem bring back cities such as New York give consumers something and
07:15
preserve the ties and connections and loose networks we've built up and all of
07:20
these wonderful artistic institutions and I think at the current moment at the
07:25
margin vouchers might be better than direct grants direct grants a lot of it
07:30
tends to be eaten up by sort of economic development issues well build a
07:36
Performing Arts Center in some County out there in Iowa I mean that may be
07:40
perfectly fine but it strikes me that coming out of a pandemic the idea of a
07:45
direct injection to spending on Performing Arts we should consider very
07:50
seriously [Doug] Thanks interesting all right if no one else wants to jump in I've got
07:57
another prompt I want to redirect this over to to Ruth but I'd like to hear
08:03
some of your perspectives the role of intellectual property and
08:07
copyright and if we can see maybe in a light of the current or at least the
08:13
previous crisis of the coronavirus and pandemic and we saw a lot of
08:16
digitization that happens as we all switch to virtual including this
08:21
symposium itself if these trends continue or even accelerate after the
08:25
pandemic what do you think this means for the cultural sector and how it
08:29
applies to intellectual property and copyright in the way [Ruth] well there are two
08:34
points that have already come up actually that I I would like to respond
08:39
to later but you asked me specifically about copyrights so I thought I would
08:42
kick off with that well the first thing to say about copyrights is that of
08:48
course it has a dual purpose which is both as an incentive to creators and
08:53
performers to create works of art in the first place but also to others in the
09:00
what we call industry creative industries record labels movie studios
09:05
broadcasters and so on to disseminate now my work has been on copyright in
09:11
relation to rewards for artists so I've been very specialized in this and please
09:17
don't anybody think that I'm next but on copyright law because I certainly am NOT
09:21
I'm an economist working on the impacts of copyright in these in these
09:27
industries so my work has been on artists earnings from copyright which I
09:33
have to say it does not produce very encouraging results from the point of
09:40
view of creators one of the reasons well I think I think we all know that the
09:48
financial rewards from copyright are very very skewed that the very top
09:54
earners earn great deal from copyright a while the the majority of people barely
10:02
collect anything very much which of course is is only a reflection of the
10:09
usual distribution that we see of earnings of artists anyway but it's
10:15
perhaps more exaggerated indeed it seems also more likely that
10:21
the corporations earn much more from copyright down do the create suit on the
10:27
distribution side benefits more so one of the things that I think people don't
10:33
understand particularly about copyright particularly when it comes to issues
10:37
like streaming which I've just been writing on is that artists earnings from
10:42
copywriter basically subject to the contracts they make they sign contracts
10:47
with publishers and at that point many people many are required in fact by the
10:53
industry to sign away the transfer all their rights and those rights n
10:59
disappear for the life of the copyright which is you know seventy years plus the
11:06
life of the author so you know these things can last for a hundred years oh
11:12
that's not true of all of all the earnings from copyright some of them
11:17
particularly more in Europe than has been the case in the United States come
11:22
through through secondary uses that means broadcasts of recordings or radio
11:31
play of recordings that kind of thing so of course researching copyright
11:38
earnings is even more difficult than researching earnings of private of
11:47
artists in general but perhaps made easier in some countries by the fact
11:53
that artists are paid by organizations that are subsidized and therefore can be
11:59
asked to report what the payments are so well the final thing I'd quickly
12:08
say about copyright law is that of course it inevitably lags behind
12:12
technological developments and he may take some time to catch up I mean your
12:17
Digital Millennium Copyright Act is a case in point we've had these for some
12:22
time but it takes a long time to negotiate these things the other feature
12:28
particularly for an international discussion or for Internet
12:32
all trade is that of course copyright is national law and therefore each country
12:37
has its own in the European Union these have been these dolls have been
12:41
harmonized but still British law is different from German law and British
12:48
law is different from American law we don't have the same fair use
12:54
doctrine that you have which makes a very big difference on thing in this
12:59
respect so those are just my comments in relation to copyright I'd like to just
13:04
come back to a couple of points it's Thailand and Darrick made which is that I
13:09
think one of the things while we're being so hopeful for for change is that
13:14
we must bear in mind that the economy everywhere is going to take a huge dive
13:19
the loans of the British government have taken out Oh
13:25
utterly unprecedented I mean going back to sixteen hundred and something and as
13:32
I'm a war baby you can tell from my white hair I remember all the
13:37
difficulties of rationing in the UK in the nineteen fifties
13:42
while we try to crawl back on those loans and all the rest of it so I'm not
13:47
very optimistic I'm not optimistic about about changing attitudes but I'm not
13:53
very optimistic about the ability to pay for them so perhaps other people can
13:57
think about that one [Doug] thank you it's great thank you Darrick you want to drop
14:02
in [Darrick] sure I mean I think the worst-case scenarios is if government doesn't act
14:07
then we get into a downward spiral and we will we will face alarming scarcity
14:14
in that scenario where we especially when we consider a recession like the
14:19
covid 19 recession and we're at this point we made a decision to cease
14:25
economic activity to save lives so that was a moral decision which is atypical
14:31
from usual recessions where there might be some speculative bubble it leads to a
14:36
downward spiral because the economic indicators are not consistent
14:42
with economic fundamentals and then we end up with a downward bubble so in this
14:45
scenario we especially need government act to act so that when we are ready to
14:50
go back to work we have things as close to normal as
14:54
possible but that said I think that a the immense public power that we have I
15:00
would avoid even you know again thinking about the art community and narratives
15:04
some of the narratives around scarcity that Public Power for certain sovereign
15:10
countries with their own monetary systems particularly the u.s. is pretty
15:15
mixed so again my fear is failure to act and our government actually will fulfill
15:21
some negative economic downturns but if if we are bold and we act we can
15:27
persevere not only through covid 19 but create structures that ensure that
15:32
everybody can thrive and especially the artists so they again have the resources
15:37
they need to reach their creative potential [Doug] thank you well before we get
15:45
into some of these new structures that I really do want to make sure we revisit
15:48
by the end of this I want to pick up some themes that Ruth had mentioned when
15:53
she talks about streaming and the changes in technology leading to a big
15:59
lag time before policy and like DCMA can catch up to it and on that spirit I want
16:05
to move over to Jason and ask him if he's got some insights about sort of
16:10
disruptive technologies or innovations and what we might be seeing in terms of
16:14
those sorts of things coming down the line for more radical reform in the
16:18
creative industries [Jason] yeah thank you Doug I think all of the issues that have
16:23
already been raised around just fundamental economic rights the role of
16:27
government in this but not just on the demand side but also on the supply side
16:31
on the regulatory side as well I think a huge role for government in in helping
16:36
us facilitate their way through this as Ruth was saying enormous importance
16:40
around intellectual property and this Tyler was saying around on the demand
16:45
side there's the aspect I'm concerned with is the cost side or the supply side
16:50
or the infrastructure side and what I'm concerned about here is
16:53
there's two things need to happen both in the economy broadly and specifically
16:57
in the art sector is we need a dramatic improvement in productivity we need to
17:02
be able to do the things that we're doing either we have to raise prices or
17:06
we need to lower costs and lower lowering costs seems like the most
17:10
obvious way forward in this in this process so how do we do that
17:15
technology is the answer here in the sense that we have to look for
17:18
technological and specifically digital solutions to dramatically lower the
17:23
costs of administration regulatory compliance payments just all of the
17:30
back-office infrastructure things that that consume
17:34
a huge amount of the costs of any sort of business operation and that's a way
17:39
through this and this sort of technology lead solution where we don't need new
17:45
fundamental new technologies we've had others you know for the past few decades
17:49
there's been a significant development in digital technology platforms around
17:55
administration payments record-keeping and so on what hasn't happened as
17:59
adoption of those technologies and I think this is the moment we're in is
18:03
that the thing about digital technologies is that they need
18:06
coordinated adoption you need all of the different parts of the supply chain to
18:10
simultaneously adopt these technologies in order to get benefits from them and
18:14
that coordination is hard to do it's it's you need some kind of external
18:18
forcing agent to do that and I think this is the this is the situation we're
18:22
in there's a you know this global pandemic for all of the destruction
18:26
... it has also coordinated actions we're all focusing on this at the same
18:32
time and I think what we've seen in the past few months is not a technology
18:38
acceleration with a coordinated digital adoption acceleration we've all jumped
18:44
and the same and we see this in an area in education that suddenly universities
18:49
which for decades have been struggling to figure out how to go online for
18:52
suddenly gone online and it turned out it wasn't actually that hard but it was
18:56
the it was the coordination that's this resolved there so what I see here is is
19:01
that this is this is the opportunity before us right now is to sort of take
19:05
this as an opportunity to upgrade tech infrastructure
19:10
particularly around the large cost aspects of dealing with a lot of digital
19:16
business so I'll talk about more about this later perhaps but but I think this
19:19
is where sort of blockchain comes in it's a distributed tech payments and
19:23
record-keeping mechanism that helps us provides us an alternative mechanism for
19:28
dealing with intellectual property rights payments ticketing identity
19:31
management a lot of this sort of back-office infrastructure stuff that
19:34
adds costs to business
19:38
interesting well I think you've touched on a lot a number of things that I
19:42
imagine some of the panelists are gonna want to jump jump in on and I I'm glad
19:46
to hear that it's sort of you see it as an acceleration of some pre-existing
19:50
changes and not necessarily it's too soon to see the new technology but it's
19:54
stuff that's already that's already there and I I'd be curious to hear what
19:59
what others think about the potential for that kind of impact to have a
20:05
meaningful input meaningful change in the arts and cultural sector [Tyler] I think I'm a
20:12
little more pessimistic on this particular issue because I see the live
20:16
concert and the online product as complements so in so many parts of the
20:22
arts you would say tor in some manner and then you sell downloads or you sell
20:28
it twenty years ago compact discs or as a speaker you sell books after you give
20:34
a talk so even though in principle we can sell the books through Amazon and of
20:39
course we still do that it works just fine when speakers performers musicians
20:44
cannot get out and about I think that's really a rather grave blow no matter how
20:51
well the digital alternatives work and that's part of my worry here that people
20:56
want experiences and the digital product is often a kind of memento of the
21:01
personal live experience and I'm not quite sure how we will substitute for
21:06
that
21:09
[Doug] yeah I think that is interesting coming out at the Jason stalk is he I think he
21:13
didn't actually say a digital digital delivery of the final a creative product
21:19
it was all sort of back-end office things and that's not the stuff that I
21:22
normally think about when we talk about digitizing the arts and culture it's not
21:26
digitizing administrative work its digitizing the creative work in band
21:31
product and I think that's a little different so idea I think this is
21:34
interesting margins to be thinking about where where the action is going to
21:38
happen and I think it also helps me segue into the question actually for you
21:41
Tyler in your opening remarks those pre-recorded ones you mentioned lots of
21:47
inertia and exogenous shocks that gaining inspire remixes I
21:51
think as you put it or innovation in the arts so the question I got is how
21:55
permanent do you think this disruption might be for this kind of potentially
22:00
temporary shock and I also want to start transitioning to hear some of your
22:04
thoughts on the other trends that you mentioned things towards independence
22:08
and decentralization in the sector generally [Tyler] I think the shock could last
22:14
some while so if you try to predict when will cross-border migration and tourism
22:19
be back to where it was very hard to predict but I think it will be much more
22:24
than just a year or two now there's plenty of talk about a vaccine a vaccine
22:29
will protect older people much less because they don't respond in the same
22:34
way with their immune systems so we could have a pretty good vaccine the
22:38
death rate may not fall very much so from my point of view there's a
22:42
reasonable chance this is a factor in our lives over a five to ten year time
22:47
horizon and I consider that fairly grim and my remarks as you know I just tried
22:53
to look at what is the best case we can make for optimism and I think
22:58
almost certainly almost all of the arts will be much worse off for the next five
23:02
years or more but maybe in the broader picture we spend too much time playing
23:08
around with older styles older instruments older movements and if this
23:14
does a lot of creative destruction it could be when it's all over there'll be
23:18
some kind of new remarkably creative era
23:22
where people are destroyed for a lot of change like a new beginning
23:25
I wouldn't hazard to predict that but I would just say if you're looking for an
23:29
optimist to case that's where I would go
23:35
[Doug] Darrick [Darrick] yes so a couple of points one is going back to some of the stuff that
23:43
Jason said I mean I share some of the optimism of potential that can come
23:48
about from use of technology but there's also a potential downside as well which
23:54
is that we know that with new technologies it can lead to empowerment
23:59
or it can also have a lead on a flipside to greater exploitation and extraction
24:04
whether it's with the actual product that someone produces or the back end
24:10
stuff as well such as literally having an account so you know I think that we
24:14
have to be careful in coordinated to make sure that it is implemented in a
24:20
way that is empowering that that uh you know again thinking about the current
24:27
crises if you didn't have a financial account then the government
24:31
interventions that took place drastically penalized you compared to
24:36
somebody to did so our new technology might be a ways to have more egalitarian
24:42
access in ways that we didn't in the past but but again it has to be done in
24:47
a way that those that lack economic or political power are not vulnerable to
24:53
exploitation and then one other point that I wanted to make this kind of
24:57
relate it to some of the stuff Tyler was mentioning is that you know we can look
25:01
back at history and know that whether this pending limitless potential
25:08
depression that might come about from this recession is going to lead to a
25:13
drag for X number of years to some extent that I think that really is a
25:18
political choice I mean historically when we had the New Deal in response to
25:22
the Great Depression it included investments in the Arts that
25:26
with our direct federal hiring we literally in addition to hiring people
25:32
to build bridges and tunnels we built monuments with direct federal subsidies
25:38
so you know if we want to increase activities that's another option that we
25:42
have we can have direct investments in arts and and and let me say that it's
25:48
the I'm just something that could be
25:51
consumable for entertainment purposes even these narratives that we have
25:56
around race you know this controversy about the Confederate monuments that
26:01
exist right now where we celebrate war heroes in the South during the Civil War
26:06
and some people claim its heritage some people claim it's offensive
26:11
um well obviously you probably know where I stand on the issue but
26:15
regardless of where I stand on the issue we could be intentional and investing in
26:20
narratives about society that reflect our past in a more inclusive way with
26:27
art and with direct government subsidies not only to keep people employed but to
26:32
effect our cultural affect more general throughout society so that we can have
26:38
better social good [Doug] thank you alright I think Ruth wanted to get in and then we'll go to Jason
26:41
[Ruth] thank you I think we're just wanted to get in and then we'll go over to Jason
26:44
uh I would like to say that I am in preparing the text for my second edition
26:51
of my textbook which came out just recently on cultural economics I looked
26:56
at how arts organizations were beginning to use technology in order to do all the
27:04
functions a Jason was talking about and and what it seems is that the large
27:09
organizations benefit but they're smaller ones don't have the facilities
27:13
or the manpower or whatever it is to do it and I think that the danger of what
27:19
we're talking about is that a lot of the changes you know I mean the larger arts
27:26
organizations are in a position to try and do they think they have
27:31
well-established means of of raising money and under an audience that's
27:43
faithful and will support them and so on and you know the smaller ones who are
27:48
usually the more innovative or service serving local communities are less
27:54
likely to be successful yes [Doug] thanks Jason [Jason] yeah I sort of pick up on a point that
28:03
the Tyler made on the pessimism of this I think as a
28:07
that is inevitable in this sense but there's a there's a potential silver
28:11
lining here and that we've had a massive amount of economic disruption that is
28:16
not just sort of depressed the economy that needs to be inflated back up again
28:20
we're going to emerge into a new the economy's going to have a different
28:23
shapes of particular sectors travel and tourism and so on shrunk online things
28:29
are going to be larger so there's there's a sort of adaptation process
28:32
that needs to take place across the entire economy but we have to figure out
28:36
new business models and new ways of doing things and and consumers will
28:40
shift their behavior and so on so there's this this the question is how
28:43
the economy adapts to this this process of change and this goes to a point that
28:49
the Darrick was making it around what uses art and culture in this thing do we
28:55
put it toward the end of entertainment and and consumer uses or
29:01
do we think of the art and cultural sectors as inputs into economic change
29:07
itself and this process of I mean this is when you think of what is design
29:12
design is an input industry into into sort of coming up with new ways of doing
29:19
things there so there's large parts of arts and cultural sector we can think of
29:24
them as helping an economy and in society adapt to change and that's a
29:29
very powerful important and needed use right now and this goes back to again to
29:34
the you know if we were to sort of direct and in fund parts of the arts and
29:38
culture sector to you know to provide services for an economy right now it's
29:43
not obvious that putting on festivals and shows would be the obvious thing
29:47
that we would do I think it's actually much more about trying to deal with the
29:53
problem that we have which is that we need not just economies to shift but
29:57
entire societies to sort of shift on their axes a bit right now and
30:00
that process of change is something that we can think of you know a use case for
30:06
the arts and cultural sector intersect [Doug] interesting thank you
30:10
I want to take a quick moment to remind everyone in the audience all the virtual
30:15
attendees to be emailing in their questions or tweet them in our CCA
30:22
Twitter handle #AEI2020 and we will I'll be collecting those and we
30:27
will get to them later on in this conversation does anyone else want to
30:30
jump in on on these points Tyler go ahead [Tyler] one area for
30:35
innovation that I see in a way it's quite retro but that's simply doing the
30:39
Performing Arts outside which of course was the norm in medieval times people
30:44
seem willing to go outside outside most likely is much much safer so kind of
30:50
theater in the park done at the county level all over America music in the park
30:55
maybe for smaller groups but I'm honestly hopeful this could be a new
31:00
blossoming of creativity people feeling closer to performance a lot more
31:05
localism because you can't just you know take a jet to San Francisco so again if
31:10
you're looking for upsides I would pin some amount of hope on that local park
31:15
performances I would like to see them start basically now it's [Doug] great well that
31:25
reminds me of a question that I wanted to ask the four panelists because I was
31:28
lucky enough to get you alike here one of the big sources of tension that I see
31:34
in the arts and cultural sector in the creative industries is this tension
31:38
between the incredible centralization of power and rights and market forces in
31:46
what we see through a lot of the platform based systems that are out
31:50
there whether it's Google and YouTube or Spotify or what-have-you for many of
31:56
these things or even just larger organizations sort of things that that
32:00
Ruth had already touched on that there's an advantage to these larger
32:03
organizations and then those of us in in the cultural economics space or
32:08
well-versed in the notion of superstar economics and things that are endemic to
32:12
the kinds of work that we're talking about and yet I wonder about cutting
32:17
back and pushing back against this some other forces that are out there -
32:22
possibly decentralized go to community you know the talent park
32:27
music festival or these are the small-scale things or the ability for
32:31
individual producers now to reach global markets without needing a record label
32:36
without needing certain gatekeepers that were there before so there's not as much
32:41
of a question in here as a theme of two tectonic plates rubbing against each
32:47
other and I'm curious to hear where where you see all of that from your
32:51
perspective and we're more importantly where you see us going in the next few
32:55
years anyone want to take an initial stab at
32:58
perspectives on this question [Ruth] well um I think that's a rather American
33:04
perspective in a sense I mean you come from a very large country where there's
33:09
a fairly common language or maybe two or three languages but ones that most
33:15
people I mean one of the things that amazes me in Europe is that there are
33:22
countries with very small populations that nevertheless managed to have very
33:28
famous symphony orchestras I mean the north the Nordic countries are examples
33:36
of this Finland Denmark you know I mean they don't have a population as big as
33:43
the city you know as London but they've nevertheless got got these facilities
33:50
and you know I think that's a perspective that one wants to see also
33:57
Tyler I'm afraid the weather in England the country's not necessarily of it's
34:05
not necessarily conducive although you're quite right about outdoor because
34:10
I'm sure you know that band stands in the park were developed in the UK in
34:16
order for people to have get out of there filthy slums and go into the park
34:22
on a Sunday afternoon but you know the thing is that one of the things has
34:28
happened with internationalization of the Arts which has been transmitted
34:33
through all kinds of means including digital for example
34:38
I live in a very small town here in the southwest of England I can go down the
34:43
road and watch the Metropolitan Opera in event opera you know which is a very new
34:52
thing and at one time people around here could never have access to opera at all
34:56
so there are these openings for this but you know there's a sort of balance
35:02
between the local and the the national I think in this that might be very
35:08
different in different places [Darrick] yeah I mean I I have some of the concerns that
35:20
I think you're alluding to Doug with these platforms having basically
35:26
monopoly and unmerited economic power and ways that in my view perhaps they
35:33
need to be regulated like public utilities you know I I have there's a
35:38
plus side to being able to disseminate across geography and the innovation that
35:43
comes along with some of the technology but on the other hand I would be afraid
35:48
when Facebook becomes an issuer of currency or Amazon is an issuer of
35:55
currency to me that is delving into a public matter where it's you know
36:01
anti-democratic and gives them immense amount of power
36:07
for objectives whether you want to cast moral judgement or not it just might not
36:12
be consistent with the public good in general so I you know I think we are
36:17
moving into some uncharted territories with these platforms but there's a
36:22
concern that if not regulated it could be too much power in the hands of an
36:29
entity without regulation [Doug] thanks Tyler Jason you want to weigh in [Tyler] I would
36:42
make a comment on tourism obviously the United States is a large country most of
36:48
our arts may be New York aside do not depend
36:51
on tourist support but smaller European economies Italy in particular I think
37:00
the slowdown in tourism will hit many places very hard and I don't think we've
37:06
quite thought that through yet but the the larger political units or maybe the
37:13
tourist bubbles you know New Zealand and Australia probably will have a travel
37:17
bubble you can go from one to the other but how a place like Sweden will
37:23
actually fill seats if Sweden de facto is closed strikes me
37:28
is one of the biggest problems yeah
37:32
[Doug] and Jason why don't you weigh in here [Jason] yeah I've
37:34
got a slightly different perspective on this around this whole idea of Industry
37:38
utilities and it just let strikes me that the basic difference between an
37:43
industrial era economy organized around nation-states and with a lot of the sort
37:48
of funding and support and infrastructure and regulation channel
37:51
through nation-state regulation means that nations are the platforms and and
37:55
and you build around that but we we're not really in that tour we're
38:00
transitioning into a world essentially where we have internet platforms instead
38:04
and internet platforms do not fit easily in nation-state contexts but the thing
38:09
about of internet platforms is that you can build a lot of the infrastructure on
38:14
those not just in terms of the communication your email and and and and
38:18
ability to sort of send you know visual messages but you can also build all of
38:23
the a lot of property rights systems a lot of the payment systems and so on on
38:28
that and what just strikes me is that those aren't naturally monopolies in the
38:33
sense that you can have competing platforms offered by you know it could
38:38
be existing companies sort of Google and Facebook and alike but it doesn't have
38:41
to be centralized companies these can also be decentralized open-source
38:45
platforms that don't really have any one control but also don't sort of prohibit
38:50
access to them so I think this is the I think the world that we're entering into
38:55
now is sort of a it's a very early stage competition around the provision of
39:00
these platforms built not in countries in Sweden or America but built
39:05
directly on the internet and examples of this are things like what we're seeing
39:09
and there's a platform called Dada which is actually grew out of the
39:15
Brooklyn visual art scene that has been is created as a digital online community
39:22
for artists to share work to work together to share
39:28
intellectual property around blockchain created artworks and that's a community
39:34
that can exist anywhere in the world that enables collaboration and pooling
39:38
and sharing of work to do that so I think there's there are some sort of new
39:44
geographies at work here that are emerging and very very early stages it's
39:49
not clear on what margins these will succeed or fail but I think this this
39:53
notion of platforms and nation states and regional geography is being
39:58
simultaneous I think has it started to break up and possibly in interesting
40:03
ways [Doug] Darrick
40:05
[Darrick] yeah yeah I mean I guess I would argue that it's not quite new that uh you know
40:12
I think we've had energy companies and various other large-scale industries
40:18
that have transcended nation boundaries I would agree also that you know it's
40:25
hard to dispute some of the innovative platforms that you just described but on
40:29
the flip side they certainly are very large-scale platforms we didn't name two
40:35
Facebook and Amazon which it's hard to argue they don't have monopoly power and
40:41
don't engage in anti-competitive processes to to fortify their monopoly
40:48
power and then of course there is clearly the potential for abuse that
40:53
goes along with that monopoly power and again I guess I'll reiterate the fears
40:57
that when they start delving into areas that have generally been exclusively the
41:03
domain of of countries there's fear because then it's you don't even have
41:09
the constraint of democracies to rein in that that power with the vote now I'm
41:14
all for transactions being democratized the new ways but the actual issuance of
41:22
currency itself again is another big one that I'm being repetitive that concerns
41:27
me greatly [Doug] all right thank you Ruth please [Ruth] I was going to say
41:35
that I believe that the tendency in platforms
41:41
well I must say that I've only studied music carefully but it seems to me that
41:49
there's a very strong tendency to these Multi multi dimension platforms away
41:57
from even the sort of two-sided market ones I think Spotify I did I've recently
42:03
done some work on the Norwegian music industry Norway has one of the highest
42:09
levels of of copy you know of Internet use and and usage and penetration and I
42:23
think that you know when you look at these things that countries like
42:27
organization like Spotify have kind of you run into the problem that they are
42:34
single youth they are single commodity producers platforms and that it's the
42:42
multi multi market multi-sided platforms and I think one needs to understand much
42:49
more about platform economics in order to have these discussions to understand
42:54
the interaction between the network effects the data collection and so on
42:58
but also these cross Network effects which have had very little attention in
43:04
in the culture in in the creative industries and I think merit much more
43:09
perhaps Jason knows more about this and I do I would say now [Doug] go ahead Tyler
43:17
[Tyler] I'm struck by contestability in a lot of these
43:20
sectors so we're doing this as a zoom call zoom was a tiny company until
43:25
recently it's still a pretty small company Google Hangouts tried to get us
43:30
to use their technology for years they had of course a ton of money incredible
43:35
talent within Google Spotify beat out Apple and other competitors and music
43:40
markets they were not at first the major player at all
43:44
Spotify itself seems to be very far from permanent for having a lock on the
43:49
market a zoom may or may not but again I hardly think it's guaranteed so just how
43:54
rapidly competition turns over in a relatively small number of years people
43:59
said YouTube was unassailable now you look at tick-tock a very serious rival
44:03
it's also a rival to Facebook fortnite is a rival social network so I would
44:08
stress there's a lot of competition in most of these markets [Doug] I think that's
44:14
great and I think it is a critical issue of the extent to which it's contestable
44:18
and I even by doing this conversation on zoom I think that reflects again my
44:22
American bias probably said to Ruth because it's its dominant market
44:27
position in the last month of most Americans lives that I know at least in
44:32
academia this is a big zooms the household worker but it doesn't
44:35
translate internationally necessarily whether it's something some other tool
44:39
Microsoft teams or some blue jeans or whatever these other alternatives are I
44:43
think that matters a great deal I'm going to use that as a chance to segue
44:47
into another question we got earlier an email question from Jamie Allen wanting
44:51
to know about how you see the role of colleges and universities going forward
44:55
given the need to change status quo and maybe think back to the challenges I've
45:00
already touched on this about how the challenges Higher Ed faced in the mid
45:05
pandemic world but also going forward what kind of challenges that we're going
45:11
to face there
45:19
[Jason] I'll jump in on this ... I think it's the
45:26
University education sectors is again experiencing massive disruption
45:30
along this line of digital platforms have just suddenly jumped into the
45:34
future here along trends that the university sector had been trying to do
45:38
for again for decades we've been trying to sort of push universities in this
45:43
direction of online delivery but also reiterate the point I was making before
45:48
that I think what we're likely to see here is universities traditionally and
45:54
for the past and during the industrial era have always been large regionally
45:58
concentrated multi service conglomerates they each University provides everything
46:05
and what that can't be that's not sustainable I think what we'll end up
46:11
with is a world where you've got a lot of the elites of Ivy League type
46:13
universities that stay pretty much as they are there'll be a fractioning of
46:19
universities into a smaller specialized niche schools and then this vast
46:25
platform of which is essentially what has happened in the banking sector if
46:31
you think you've got there's a huge sort of digital infrastructure that sits in
46:35
these modern banking systems and most banks are just connecting to that I
46:39
think that's the pattern for universities in the sense of a lot of
46:42
the underlying administrative much of the cost of a university is this
46:46
administrative cost of just running the place
46:49
keep record-keeping and identity management and certification and so on
46:54
again that stuff that we've always previously done with in a way that
46:59
hasn't really changed much for hundreds of years that can be digitized that sort
47:03
of infrastructure so I think this notion of of using digital technologies to
47:09
fundamentally change the underlying economic organization of how we deliver
47:13
this not just at the consumer facing end but at the underlying sort of business
47:16
model model side of it again that pushes towards a globalization pattern it
47:22
pushes towards a sort of dramatic change in the cost structure of what
47:26
universities look like but a massive global reorganization of how that
47:31
services delivered and I think it's it's similar to what we can expect to see in
47:36
the arts and cultural sector for the same reasons that it's just a technology
47:40
trend accelerating through [Doug] that's great I'm glad you went there I'm gonna go
47:45
over to Ruth now [Ruth] yes well I think this is a rather English there's proper word
47:52
for it English language centered view of the world you wouldn't get much sympathy
47:57
for this in most of Europe where people want to be educated in their own
48:04
languages and what whereas of course in economics we know that people study
48:11
economics in in English all over the place and write in English extremely
48:17
well and so on and so forth that doesn't fit for every subject and I you know
48:23
that it can be a very very mean to too many people in Europe their own language
48:29
is the bit the most important expression of their culture and I think that the
48:36
danger of a lot some of these things is that these minority languages cultures
48:44
come to be so not minority but they don't represent large populations be
48:50
sidelined and many countries many peoples are very aware and worried about
48:56
that sort of thing so let's not be too of course I agree anybody who's taught
49:04
econ 101 realizes that you know September the same week in September all
49:11
over you know the english-speaking world people are you know saying more or less
49:16
the same thing which is extremely inefficient and there are certainly
49:20
scope for many of these things but I certainly think that one has to bear in
49:25
mind the sort of cultural significance of language in this story as well
49:32
[Doug] interesting Darrick [Darrick] I guess a few points um usually the biggest College in the
49:39
university is arts and sciences and that's fitting in our conversation
49:45
about the arts I think that our political economy emphasizes the
49:50
economic returns to education so much to the extent that we lose the value of it
49:56
as a good in and of itself and hints I think we've diverted a lot of attention
50:01
in university curricula away from certain types of disciplines like arts
50:07
because our society deems education as the pathway towards economic returns
50:15
later in life and you know to be honest it's hard to decipher whether that's
50:20
actually a good is it the functional role of Education or is it the
50:25
credentialing effect that leads to market returns right I don't think we
50:30
fully know the extent of which one is which by observing an outcome when we
50:35
see somebody's wage after University so my point is is part we should be
50:40
thinking about university as a value in and of itself if we're dating about
50:45
investing in various aspects and that would include investments in the arts I
50:50
think that in this covid 19 moment we know that especially in the u.s. context
50:56
many colleges and universities are under oast there was a sudden shutdown where
51:00
there was a unplanned sudden lost in revenue there was sudden and right now
51:06
there's austerity going on in university but this is in a larger trend where the
51:12
real value of public subsidy and again in the United States context and I think
51:17
in the global context as well has been declining tuitions have been rising
51:23
greater than inflation but also a component is that universe that public
51:28
subsidies has not been rising at the same level in terms of real value as the
51:34
past so that has been a shift of burden onto students and students have had to
51:40
absorb the costs to a much larger extent mostly through debt finding it up
51:46
to a large extent through debt financing I'm sorry you know I think we should
51:50
think about that context as well and in the u.s. context that's the one I'm most
51:56
familiar with we have the Millennial generation they came in today young
52:00
adulthood right after the Great Depression I'm sorry right after the
52:05
Great Recession and a lot of them were told job prospects are not good go get a
52:11
college education so that you can have better job prospects and in so doing we
52:17
burdened them with record levels of debt and then now they're faced with another
52:22
economic calamity now covid 19 where once again their job
52:27
prospects are gonna be threatened um yeah perhaps this sounds a bold I
52:34
certainly wouldn't call it radical I think if we're thinking about stimulus
52:38
effects that the government can engage in in this covid 19 moment one very
52:44
well should be canceling student debt not only would that release some burden
52:49
on students who more recently have faced catastrophes that previous
52:55
generations have not but it would also be a stimulus to universities itself
53:00
because a lot of universities hold that debt so I you know I think this is the
53:04
time is right to really consider a policy like unleashing that albatross of
53:10
debt on young Americans or young people throughout the world who now have our
53:16
face with another recession and not not great job prospects
53:25
[Doug] thank you oh Tyler why don't you jump [Tyler] one of my biggest worries with education is
53:30
not so much higher ed but K through 12 and to continue with the arts theme what
53:36
art appreciation and will look like other than YouTube if you read the
53:41
actual social distancing guidelines given by say a grammar school it seems
53:46
that most arts education will be close to impossible for a few years and you
53:52
might think well it will all bounce back but if it goes away for a few years
53:56
there's still pressure on budgets the people who teach it or let go or they
54:00
move on to doing other things from an arts point of view I find this quite
54:06
concerning I don't think it's our biggest problem from the pandemic but
54:10
the use of lower tier schools to transmit cultural information people
54:14
singing in choirs people you know doing things together in collectives I think a
54:22
lot of that's going to go away I'm not sure how much of it will come back
54:27
[Doug] I'm glad you mentioned that thanks Tyler I'm gonna take that as a chance to get
54:31
it into a question I got from the backstage room here how do we help
54:36
elected officials and policy makers see those in creative industries as a pool
54:41
of talent to help rebuild the economy so this kind of captures this idea about
54:46
being able to do our appreciation and who appreciates art appreciation and how
54:51
can we mobilize that or more importantly what's the technique to get policymakers
54:54
here on this
55:00
Darrick go ahead [Darrick] I mean frankly is in their best interest at the end of the
55:04
day a lot of our problems are political problems where there's not enough buy-in
55:09
amongst legislators to be able to enact solutions that people may already know
55:15
that are pretty sound so this is the point the point is that
55:19
narrative has a lot to do with action narrative and discourse has a lot to do
55:25
with action and without creative ways of conveying messaging and the art
55:32
community quite frankly is better adept at it then social scientists and policy
55:37
makers so it really is in the best interest of policymakers in my view to
55:42
if they want to effect change in a really good way to be able to tap into
55:47
that resource which is better skilled at it then people like myself who's an
55:52
economist
55:57
[Doug] thank you anyone else I've got another question that has just come in from
56:02
Jeremy Peters who he's also backstage and I I like this one because
56:06
it's actually uses first mover advantage jargon here so I think it can appeal to
56:11
the to the panel here so do any of the panelists believe that there is a first
56:15
mover disadvantage just hampering the ability of creators to benefit from the
56:20
innovation they're being forced to do in this moment there's the small
56:23
organization that innovates run the risk of being trampled by the larger
56:26
organization that finally adopts the idea in their reorganisation
56:31
thoughts on this Jason [Jason] yeah I think I mean that is the right question that
56:37
would normally be true and normally there's a in any sort of fast intensive
56:42
technological shift there is a first mover disadvantage because the first
56:45
mover makes all the mistakes and curse all the costs of those mistakes the
56:49
second mover learns that and is able to come in very quickly over the top but
56:53
the the unique situation we have here is that because the pandemic itself has
56:59
sort of focused everyone's attention on adoption of on this on sort of shifting
57:04
from an old way of doing things to looking for to online ways of doing
57:07
things with digital ways of doing things or social distance waves ways of doing
57:10
things we're also working under the same new set of constraints that first move
57:17
disadvantage that would normally be true because you have to sort of incur the
57:20
costs of of getting everyone to a doctor and so on just isn't there right now so
57:26
I mean I think it's that there's a huge opportunity right now or there's a that
57:33
normal sort of economic logic I think just doesn't hold right now
57:36
and just going to the tireless point before around the enormous
57:40
contestability in this space I mean a lot of that contestability comes from
57:44
the fact that digital infrastructure or digital assets far more non-rival and
57:51
non-excludable than physical assets are so it's a lot harder to build up rents
57:56
and to and to sort of maintain a monopoly just purely by owning the
58:00
infrastructure and it's copyable it's so because the sits space is far more
58:07
contestable and because you've got this sort of massive
58:10
global coordinated adoption context I think now is a really interesting time
58:15
to be so quite entrepreneurial aggressive and this goes back to the
58:18
question before around now what do elected officials can do to sort of help
58:22
artists do we recognize that pool of talent
58:25
what sort of behind that is the presumption that it's up to governments
58:29
to figure out what artists should be doing and I just don't buy that at all I
58:33
think this is this is really a time when entrepreneurial discovery and innovation
58:39
and experimentation is cheap now is a time when it is actually incredibly
58:45
cheap to try new ideas out just simply because the opportunity cost of doing so
58:49
is so low role of government here is in part we think of it as a public
58:54
providing financing and and and it's a demand-side stimulus but it's also about
58:59
reducing the barriers to those costs of experimentation I think one of the first
59:06
things we saw in the early phase was sort of deregulation around
59:10
occupational licensing or just ability to sort of very rapidly move doctors or
59:15
nurses from one area to another and I think that that same sort of
59:21
deregulation impulse understood as a sort of dis way of reducing costs of
59:26
experimentation now whether it's temporary or not but I think this this
59:30
notion that one of the things government can do is just reduce their own costs of
59:35
people just trying new things out and then this is what artists and the
59:40
artistic sector is very very good at is trying new ideas out now now is very
59:44
much a moment for that to come come to the fore [Doug] thank you Darrick do you want to jump
59:53
in [Darrick] if we have time no you can rein me in if I'm talking too much Doug I feel like
60:00
I'm jumping in too often but you know we also in thinking about the role of
60:04
government we can think about the role of capital and to a large extent capital
60:08
absorbs good ideas and tries to incorporate it that's you know that that
60:15
also is perhaps something that is not democratic and not always conducive that
60:23
capital itself comes in and then on the flipside even with all the good ideas
60:28
you may have if you don't have capital finance to begin with you are vulnerable
60:33
to that type of extraction or exploitation of whatever are a good idea
60:38
you have [Doug] yeah thank you okay
60:43
so I got another question it's a tweet that came in from Sarah Marty and I'm
60:47
gonna I'm gonna paraphrase it a little bit because it's gonna help me invoke
60:52
the the title of our panel about creative destruction and I think it
60:57
builds on some of the comments that Jason was giving when he's talked about
60:59
the education higher education for an industrial structure going through some
61:04
big structural shifts as in response to this so the question is thinking about a
61:10
statement actually about how different scale organizations are better able to
61:14
respond to some of these things will these pressures accelerate the disparity
61:19
that we see in for-profit businesses continued push to larger consolidation
61:24
loss of smaller business and companies and from an American perspective in the
61:28
arts and cultural sector most of these are small nonprofit arts nonprofits that
61:32
may not have survived this kind of big shot how do you guys see the creative
61:37
destruction or maybe just the destruction coming out of this kind of
61:40
big shock where do you think we go next
61:44
[Ruth] well perhaps I can say something about this I mean I think of course
61:55
unemployment and you know structural change does you know make people think
62:02
about what they want to do next some people will go for the arts some
62:07
some people will you know try and retrain or whatever it is I think we
62:14
don't know very much about sort of long lasting effects of these kind of shocks
62:19
which we've had in the UK I mean I studied the effect in the 1980s of the
62:26
you know the British economy's woes which led to very you know a lot of
62:33
unemployment among artists and so on I was interested as I mentioned to the
62:40
other day in the Kickstarter discussion I mean those kind of initiatives are
62:48
probably very important for what Jason is talking about me and have Kickstarter
62:52
for for you know for new new ideas I think people are willing to take on to
63:01
adopt new technologies but I think it is easy to to suppose that it can be done
63:13
without some sort of real infrastructure that supports it
63:18
just having unemployment just having people having time on their hands
63:23
I'm not sure that that's enough the other thing is that I mean we've had
63:28
some very depressing apart from the the rioting situation not the rioting the
63:33
demonstration situations which I'm not about but oh you know even before
63:38
lockdown was vaguely lifted in the UK people rushed to the countryside they
63:44
rushed the beaches they you know fell over each other you know trying to get
63:49
into the sea and so on I mean we're very hopeful that people's behavior is going
63:55
to change as a result of lockdown and of course I agree with Darrick and and
64:02
everyone that one would like to see this but I don't have a lot of hope that it
64:10
will be spontaneous and I think we should be also considering what kind of
64:16
not only nonprofit organizations all kinds of things the other thing is that
64:21
of course the big these kind of big corporations that we're talking about
64:26
you know that that are dominating the platforms and so on they are very poor
64:32
employees they have a very bad record of paying minimum wage if there is a
64:38
minimum wage of giving people you know the gig economy I mean a phrase that was
64:44
of course taken from cultural economics into the wider economy but these these
64:50
you know people who don't know from one almost half day to the next whether
64:56
they've got a job or not that requires I think much more
65:00
regulation than there has been [Doug] thanks I'm gonna go over to Tyler and then up
65:05
to Jason [Tyler] I think in some regards some of the
65:10
smaller arts institutions will have big advantages they're already used to the
65:15
notion that they cannot cover high fixed costs
65:18
some of them will feel they have nothing to lose which will be true are they're
65:23
not wedded to some pre-existing way of doing things so if you think of say the
65:28
Metropolitan Museum of Art which of course is a wonderful wonderful place my
65:34
sense is the prevailing mindset there is we need to act as if nothing has changed
65:38
we want to restore exactly how things were these are the departments we need
65:43
to have the rooms we need to have open here's what the function of a museum is
65:47
and they're just locked into the model of trying to replicate that in a far
65:51
less favorable financial environment where's the smaller firms of course so
65:56
many will go under but you'll have some bold winners that just try new things
66:00
and succeed with them and the legacy institutions like the Met you know
66:05
they're not big enough that they can just ride the storm they're not Amazon
66:09
they're not Google they're not Facebook they're actually pretty small businesses
66:13
if you think of them as businesses but they're big enough in their own minds
66:17
but I think they're not that willing to change so I do think the met will
66:20
survive MoMA will survive but I'm not sure they quite have all the advantages
66:25
that people think [Doug] interesting Jason [Jason] yeah I'm glad to hear that I love it I think
66:33
this this notion of rising inequality right now is the main thing I'm
66:39
concerned about and I think what we're so seeing at the moment is a lot of
66:44
small companies are going being held aloft at the moment through sort of
66:48
temporary government subsidies or wage subsidies and so on we'll likely to see
66:53
a sort of a selection effect go through that is largely filtering on bigness the
66:58
big companies can survive little companies and so on are going to be
67:02
likely to be destroyed coming through this and this is why I was myself
67:07
attention has drawn to the importance of what type of infrastructure do we need
67:14
to ensure that that doesn't happen that provide sort of public utilities that
67:18
the small companies can tap into and offload some of their administrative
67:22
costs or rather sort of cost basis so I think this is sort of where my optimism
67:28
around the value of digital infrastructure publicly provided open
67:33
access digital infrastructure really comes from as a way to try and avoid the
67:37
situation where we end up with the sort of covid selection in economic
67:42
selection mechanism going across and just destroying lots of small players
67:46
and only leaving the big ones behind and that's to me that's a terrible outcome
67:50
for the economy to try and deal with so you know and so I'm I'm I hope you're
67:56
right about this Tyler that the smaller companies can use this use their
68:02
experiences at being able to sort of adapt fast and pivot and and and run on
68:06
a relatively lean administrative cost base to come through this this alive but
68:12
I'm that's the main thing I'm worried about with this is that we end up with
68:15
an industrial organization sort of on the other side of this that is far more
68:22
pivoted to or has far more just big corporate weight in it than we currently
68:27
do [Doug] okay well I've got do we have time for one more question here and this one
68:35
does fit in a bit especially if you can frame it none put it in the frame of
68:40
system or infrastructure or big policy shifts to create a better environment
68:45
however you would see it going forward the question is about very large debt
68:51
spending by governments to prop up economies and move move this forward and
68:57
the question is about universal basic income as an alternative where we would
69:00
transference to people the the same amount of money essentially going to
69:05
individuals equally avoiding some of the political challenges and realities that
69:09
are associated with with public spending so it's not governing debt unfunded
69:14
liabilities and ethical failing in the days passed on to those not even yet
69:18
voting not to say yeah not even born as an alternative to that thinking about
69:23
ubi it's a very broad question if you don't want to tackle head on you might
69:28
think of other large systemic policy shifts that might help but all right
69:31
does the panel have any thoughts on these kinds of approaches
69:37
looks like Darrick
69:43
[Darrick] the first issue oh sorry Ruth go first [Ruth] sorry I beg your pardon Darrick
69:53
there I am I mean so there are if you look around Europe there are examples
69:58
for example Finland has had a minimum income policy which is not ungenerous
70:08
for anybody that's not linked to whether or not they're willing to go back to
70:14
work or that kind of thing there's no no it's no conditions associated with it
70:20
and it has in fact empowered people to do all kinds of things that they didn't
70:25
expect to do write a book whatever it's an interesting scheme I think that their
70:31
trouble is that we you know we live in these countries where there's a kind of
70:35
history of you know of self-help where people feel you can't hand out things to
70:42
people for nothing they've got to be good in return one way or another which
70:47
means accepting any job that's going there's a crisis in the UK at the moment
70:53
by the way of how to get our strawberries picked because although
70:59
there are a lot of unemployed and unworked non-working
71:03
Brits around it turns out that they're completely incapable of collecting
71:09
strawberries in fields in the way that the Bulgarian or Romanian workers who
71:16
who come over every year to do it can do so I mean if you it depends how you
71:23
offer these things whether you kind of give them as a gift or whether you tie
71:28
them to kind of conditions of people and not necessarily able to to fulfill
71:34
[Doug] thanks, Darrick [Darrick] yes so I you know I'll answer it I guess
71:39
in parts 1 part can governments afford programs like UBI can we finance
71:47
that and to me the answer to that is the constraint on government spending is
71:52
inflation that's one constraint and the reality is we haven't had threats of
71:58
inflation particularly in the US for a very long time
72:02
so you know that doesn't seem to be as concerning of a threat as long as we're
72:07
spending towards productive capacities and that's going to relate to the ubi
72:11
answer in a second um the other threat is can we can we
72:15
finance the debt and growth rates have been trending higher then interest rates
72:23
on the debt so the answer to that question is debt fiscal debt has not
72:30
been a constraint on at least the US government for quite a long time um so
72:36
I'd say that my good colleague Stephanie Tilton has a book that literally came
72:41
out today called the deficit myth and I encourage everyone to read that to push
72:47
back on a couple of narratives one the government is like a household and
72:52
constrained in that way we are not governments are not that way and then to
72:58
another myth that Ruth brought up is this notion of deservedness that
73:04
constrains us from engaging in these policies that somehow people are not
73:09
deserving of a handout um one I don't consider it a handout but really the
73:14
government's role to facilitate capabilities of people to ensure that
73:19
they have the adequate resources so that they can thrive and we have a long
73:23
history of government engage in this way it was how asset based middle-class
73:28
people were built particularly in the u.s. it was through things like a GI
73:34
Bill and before that the Homestead Act which were frankly literally government
73:39
giveaways or entitlement programs so one we can't afford it to this notion of
73:46
undeserving this is often couched in racialized language where we use things
73:51
like in modern days welfare queens dead beat dads or super predators and somehow
73:57
the government is tilting the scale and they're favoring an undeserving way and
74:02
in countries outside of the US it is often put on immigrants as somehow being
74:07
undeserving and my view to arts community has a big role in combating
74:13
those narratives because in my view those narratives
74:16
not grounded in reality of government capacities and even righteousness of
74:21
who's deserving and undeserving so um I certainly see a role of government
74:26
playing in that so now to the question of ubi the universal basic income I'm in
74:32
favor of as Ruth pointed out programs that guarantee income as a right a
74:38
citizen right or a belonging right to their constituents and it
74:43
certainly would facilitate the arts in my view but you bei as a program has
74:50
some problems in it and as designed by some people you don't think it of the
74:56
yang program in the United States giving everybody the same income across the
75:02
entire population is almost the definition of inflation so the effects
75:07
are not real when you do it in that way and I understand he talks about using
75:12
the tax code as a back way of trying to address the inequality aspects but that
75:17
would be an inefficient way of using the tax code frankly you can use the tax
75:22
code on the front end as a mechanism of supplying guaranteed income you know in
75:27
the u.s. everybody doesn't file taxes because some people don't make as much
75:31
income to to have a tax burden at the federal level um well the tax code in my
75:39
view America's biggest fiscal tool should be one that everybody has engaged
75:44
in it's inclusive and civically engaged and it's socially equitable so those
75:49
individuals should get a government um income a guaranteed income so so
75:54
guaranteed income um for uh ubi is also inequality enhancing because you can
76:00
imagine that by definition if you're low income your subsistence that you consume
76:06
and if you're high income you're subsidizing that person's investment
76:10
portfolio and another rhetoric around ubi is this notion that frame then
76:17
everybody should have income and then let the market alone make decisions on
76:22
how goods and services are distributed and produced um well guaranteed income
76:27
is not necessarily in that frame and I don't think we have to get rid of
76:32
our entire social safety net in order to have guaranteed income it would be one
76:37
component in a series of economic rights that we would need including like they
76:43
do in the UK the right to health care the right to in my view we should have a
76:49
right to a public education and again at the risk of going on and on in this
76:53
conversation I'll just name one more I think that governments have an
76:58
obligation to provide a right to a job a federal job guarantee and those and
77:04
those jobs would not only provide attributes related to work that income
77:10
alone don't offer we we as human beings I think it's part of our characteristic
77:16
to desire to be in social settings and productive activities and there's a lot
77:22
of public works that needs to be done including public arts so reimagining a
77:28
society with something like guaranteed income is something we should do and the
77:34
notion that we can't pay for it I don't think is grounded in our reality at
77:39
least for the last 45 years right [Doug] great thank You Darrick so we're a little over on time
77:45
but I want to give a chance to Tyler if you had some last words you like to
77:49
share a little bit over to Jason [Tyler] I just think the return of uber and lyft
77:53
whatever whenever that comes that's the ubi that artists will
77:57
actually get [Doug] all right and Jason some final thoughts [Jason] yeah I think the
78:05
the other issue behind of this is just the ubi is essentially trying to
78:10
replicate a type of income insurance and this there's a lot of sort of new ways
78:16
that we can deliver insurance products you know through sort of decentralized
78:22
finance and other ways of income pooling and other sort of mechanisms that we
78:26
haven't really had as options before we've always relied on a very
78:29
centralized income pooling and redistribution model organized by
78:34
government so I think there's possibly some new sort of technological solutions
78:38
that sort of combine digital technologies plus finance into this but
78:42
again these are you know sort of ways of just thinking
78:45
about how we can disrupt the way in which we deliver social insurance [Doug] right
78:50
thank you well this third panel how time is
78:54
overall we're coming to a close here I want to make sure to thank our panelists
78:59
Ruth Towse, Tyler Cowen, Jason Potts, and Darrick Hamilton thank you very much for
79:04
taking the time this afternoon and this morning and this evening for joining us
79:08
it's been a great conversation I really appreciate you think it's time during
79:12
this these trying times in the last few months and so I thank you for being part
79:17
of this very much
Lectures
Description of the video:
00:01hello
00:03
my name is Michael Rushton and I'm here
00:06
at the O'Neal School of Public and
00:09
Environmental Affairs at Indiana
00:10
University in Bloomington and I teach
00:14
and direct the arts administration
00:17
programs here at the O'Neal school and
00:21
I'm also a co-director of our recently
00:24
founded Center for Cultural Affairs and
00:26
what I'm going to talk about today is a
00:28
paper that I wrote a few years ago
00:30
actually on local arts funding and it is
00:35
here you can see support for earmarked
00:37
public spending on culture evidence from
00:40
a referendum in metropolitan Detroit and
00:42
this was published in public budgeting
00:44
and finance in the year 2005 makes a
00:49
kind of older paper now 15 years old but
00:51
to my knowledge this is the only
00:56
in-depth study of voting patterns on the
01:00
Arts in the United States since that
01:01
time so it's still relevant and still
01:03
gets cited now and again there's more
01:06
European studies since Europeans often
01:08
have referendum on the arts but this is
01:11
the only American one I know so what's
01:13
going on here well in the United States
01:17
most funding for the Arts happens at the
01:21
local level we do have a National
01:23
Endowment for the Arts to talk about
01:26
funding of the Arts at the federal level
01:28
and of course all the states have their
01:30
Arts Council's but the u.s. because it
01:33
is so big because it is so diverse
01:35
across many axes it turns out that it
01:39
actually makes a lot of sense to do most
01:41
of the funding of arts organizations of
01:43
artists at the local level right so
01:46
that's great
01:49
how can cities and counties and
01:53
metropolitan areas go about that well
01:55
there's two ways to do this one is that
01:58
you can have a local Arts Council that
02:02
every year every two years goes through
02:05
the budgetary process makes requests
02:08
from
02:09
the treasurer's office for a particular
02:10
budget they get a budget allocation and
02:13
then they go ahead and do their business
02:14
giving grants to arts organizations and
02:17
artists another way to do it
02:19
a different way is to have what's called
02:21
an earmarked tax and what an earmarked
02:25
taxes is when there's an agreement to
02:28
take a part of a particular tax and
02:32
guarantee that that goes to the arts and
02:35
so it takes it out of the ordinary
02:38
budget request process and you just have
02:41
this steady stream where the Arts
02:44
Council knows this is where this money
02:46
is going to come from and that's an
02:48
earmark tax now a lot of cities have
02:51
adopted this it is more stable funding
02:57
so that arts organizations can know that
03:00
well we're not in danger of funding
03:02
being totally cut because we have this
03:04
guaranteed revenue source often it also
03:07
ends up leading to more funding because
03:10
if people vote directly on something
03:12
often you can actually get more money
03:13
for the Arts than if it just goes
03:15
through the budgetary process so a lot
03:18
of cities have done this in Denver and
03:22
in Salt Lake City they take a portion of
03:25
the sales tax the retail sales tax that
03:28
gets dedicated to the arts in cities
03:31
like San Francisco or Columbus Ohio they
03:34
take a part of the hotel's tax and
03:37
devote that to the arts in st. Louis
03:40
they dedicate part of the property tax
03:43
to arts and big organizations the st.
03:46
Louis Art Museum the zoo the Botanical
03:49
Gardens and in Cleveland they use a
03:53
portion of cigarette taxes from the
03:56
aurochs that tends to be fairly
03:57
lucrative so these taxes usually have to
04:02
be approved by referendum so you have to
04:05
essentially get voters to agree to this
04:07
and what happened here in Detroit in
04:10
2002 was that they had a proposal for an
04:16
increase in the property tax
04:19
that would go to the arts now one thing
04:23
about these kinds of votes from this way
04:24
of doing it is it can be different in
04:26
every city so I've just said different
04:28
cities use different tax bases like
04:31
sales taxes or property taxes or hotel
04:33
taxes and also you have to think about
04:36
questions like well what arts
04:39
organizations are actually going to be
04:41
funded is it all going to go to really
04:43
big organizations is most of the money
04:46
going back to small community-based
04:48
organizations you also have to ask
04:50
questions about what geographical region
04:53
is going to be covered a lot of things
04:55
have to be figured out and so each one
04:58
of these earmark taxes in the United
05:00
States is slightly different in its own
05:01
way so the Detroit one was gonna work
05:05
like this it was going to be two
05:07
counties Wayne County which includes the
05:10
city of Detroit and Oakland County which
05:13
is to its northwest so let me pop up a
05:16
map here sorry so here we have a map of
05:24
Greater Detroit so here's Wayne County
05:27
and in the city of Detroit this is
05:28
Canada of course and here is Oakland
05:31
County to the northwest and the the
05:33
biggest city in Oakland County is
05:35
Pontiac and so the referendum on whether
05:39
to increase property taxes to fund the
05:41
arts was going to cover Wayne and
05:43
Oakland County now it did not cover
05:47
Macomb County which was kind of an issue
05:50
because lots of people live there and
05:52
you notice that some of the people in
05:54
Macomb County would actually be quite
05:55
close to the big arts organizations that
05:59
are in downtown Detroit they were
06:01
actually going to get a good deal
06:02
because if this were approved they would
06:05
get to enjoy all the benefits of that
06:06
arts tax without having to pay it that
06:09
actually became a bit of an issue in the
06:10
in the campaign the vote fate it did not
06:16
pass due to various County regulations
06:19
and so
06:20
it's gonna study that in Wayne County
06:22
had had to get 60% of the vote and an
06:24
Oakland County had had to get 50% of the
06:26
golden that came up just for a little
06:28
bit short in both counties so why why
06:35
did it fail why did why did in this pass
06:36
well there were a few issues but if you
06:38
look back to sort of the newspaper
06:40
stories from this we get a few ideas one
06:43
complaint was that a lot of the money
06:47
was going to go to fairly big arts
06:48
organizations so two-thirds of all the
06:50
money from this was going to go to just
06:52
21 major museums and arts organizations
06:56
some of which are quite wealthy like say
06:58
the Ford Museum or something like that
07:00
and only one-third was going to go back
07:02
to community organizations some people
07:05
were saying well why are we raising this
07:07
money on our property taxes just to fund
07:10
some organizations that are going to be
07:12
fairly rich the median house price at
07:16
the time in these two counties was a
07:18
hundred and thirty thousand dollars
07:19
right it's not a very expensive place to
07:22
live I think most people know but that
07:24
would have been a tax increase just even
07:26
on that median house of about $32 a year
07:29
that's quite a bit of money and so you
07:32
know you did have that problem of people
07:34
saying I own a pretty ordinary priced
07:36
house here my property taxes are going
07:38
to go up 32 dollars a year to pay for
07:40
some organizations that probably have
07:42
more money than than I do so it's not
07:47
clear to some people how they were
07:49
actually going to benefit from this so
07:53
what did I do in my in my study well
07:56
what I did in my study is I wanted to
07:58
find out well who voted for this like
08:02
who voted yes and who voted no and can
08:05
we break that down so here's what I did
08:08
I took all of the different voting
08:12
precincts in these two counties all
08:15
right now you think about voting
08:17
precinct think about say the elementary
08:20
school where you go to cast your ballot
08:22
consider that a precinct just for that
08:25
very small neighborhood all right second
08:29
thing I did was I got all the numbers on
08:31
people voted in those precincts and I
08:34
matched them up to census tracks because
08:36
census tracks are where we can get data
08:38
on the characteristics of the
08:40
neighborhood but their incomes like what
08:43
is the racial and ethnic diversity and
08:49
all of these kinds of questions and so I
08:51
matched the precincts about 2,000
08:53
precincts to the census tracts there
08:55
were about 1000 census tracts this was
08:57
actually fairly painstaking because the
08:59
boundaries don't always match up just so
09:02
and then I did a regression and I did a
09:05
regression on the percentage of a census
09:09
tract voting YES on the initiative to
09:12
increase taxes for the arts and ran that
09:15
against what are all the characteristics
09:17
of that tract all right so that was how
09:22
I went about this so let's have a look
09:23
at how people voted and here's my map so
09:28
again you can see we've got Wayne County
09:30
and Oakland County the darker green is
09:35
where a high proportion of voters voted
09:37
yes so the darkest green is essentially
09:40
over three-quarters of people voting YES
09:42
on on this the medium green is sort of
09:47
sort of between 40 and 60% so that's
09:50
kind of the median areas and the light
09:52
green is where there was very little
09:54
very little support well what's the
09:57
first thing you see when you just look
09:58
at the map well the first thing you see
09:59
when we do the map is that looks like
10:00
people in the city of Detroit we're far
10:02
more in favor of this then as you go out
10:05
further and further that's actually not
10:07
very surprising because when you measure
10:10
this we could take a can't reach it with
10:12
my hand but if you take the far
10:14
northwest corner of Oakland County
10:16
you're 58 miles from the Central
10:20
District of Detroit where all of your
10:21
big arts organizations are that's a long
10:24
way right so you were asking people to
10:26
increase their taxes for arts
10:28
organizations that were mostly quite a
10:31
fair distance away from that it's also
10:34
probably been a self-selection going on
10:36
and the people who have chosen to live
10:38
in a really
10:39
in suburb or thinking yeah you know the
10:42
Opera is not really my thing if I were
10:44
really interested in going to classical
10:47
music concerts all the time
10:49
I probably live closer into the city
10:51
okay
10:52
so we can see just on the map that
10:54
distance plays a part and that makes
10:56
sense and it does give a lesson for
10:58
anybody who is thinking about setting up
11:00
an earmark tax for their city what's the
11:03
appropriate geographic area here should
11:05
I be including X urban areas that maybe
11:09
don't feel like they're gonna get much
11:11
benefit from this maybe it should be a
11:13
little bit more more localized okay but
11:16
distance isn't the isn't the only thing
11:19
one of the other variables that turned
11:23
out to matter or not matter
11:25
some of them surprised me so the age the
11:29
average age of people turned out not to
11:31
matter one of the things we know about
11:34
the sort of so-called high arts is that
11:37
it's mostly older people who go but it
11:39
turned out that the average age in the
11:41
census track didn't really mean much
11:42
another surprising one was that income
11:45
and house value didn't mean much
11:49
that's that's kind of interesting
11:51
because they think well wouldn't it be
11:52
more richer people that would tend to go
11:54
it turned out no I didn't really find
11:57
much correlation at all between income
12:02
levels and house values and proportion
12:05
voting yes so who did vote guess what
12:08
what things did matter besides business
12:10
well here's a here's a list of a few
12:12
things that turned out to be significant
12:14
what's the proportion of people who are
12:17
renters rather than home owners okay
12:20
well think about it if you're a renter
12:22
you're thinking well as the property tax
12:24
my problem right is this actually going
12:25
to be reflected by rent maybe not so a
12:28
renter might think well this is a good
12:29
deal property owners are gonna pay this
12:31
tax I'm not and I can get the benefits
12:34
from it so renters neighborhoods with a
12:37
lot of renter's tended to vote more in
12:39
favor of this tax the percentage of
12:43
adults with at least a bachelor's degree
12:46
turned out to be fairly important so any
12:48
census track that had a lot of people
12:50
with at least a bachelor's degree that
12:51
census track tended to vote yes as well
12:55
that we did kind of expect because one
12:58
of the things we find on opinion surveys
13:00
of the arts all the time is that more so
13:03
than income levels of formal education
13:05
actually mean a lot in terms of people's
13:08
attendance of the arts and general
13:11
support for public funding of the arts
13:12
of Education did tend to matter people
13:16
without a vehicle if the census tract
13:18
had more people without vehicles they
13:19
tend to devote more for this
13:22
african-americans if the census track
13:24
got a higher proportion of
13:25
african-americans it was also more
13:28
likely to vote for this well there's a
13:33
number of factors that seem to influence
13:34
which neighborhoods which census tracts
13:37
voted yes what was the biggest effect
13:40
well when I ran the regressions and he
13:41
could you're interested you can see them
13:44
in detail in the paper the thing that
13:46
actually mattered the most was at this
13:50
election which was a November vote there
13:53
was also a vote for the governor of the
13:55
state of Michigan and people who voted
13:59
Democrat for governor overwhelmingly
14:03
tended to vote YES on this tax people
14:07
who voted Republican for governor
14:10
strongly voted no so there did seem to
14:13
be a bit of political polarization on
14:15
this as well and we do see this fairly
14:19
consistently in American politics across
14:22
the country not just in Detroit but
14:24
people who lean Democrat tend to also
14:27
lean towards yes public funding of the
14:30
Arts is a good idea people who lean
14:32
Republicans tend to think no public
14:34
funding of the Arts is not such a good
14:36
idea it's not hard and fast you do get
14:39
people who lean Republican who think
14:40
funding of the Arts is a good idea you
14:42
get people who lean Democrat who think
14:43
it's a bad idea but in general in
14:45
general you do ten
14:46
that result and that's what we that's
14:48
what we found here um what do we learn
14:53
from this case I think in terms of
14:59
designing an earmark tax for the Arts
15:01
one of the things you really want to
15:02
think of is how do you make the case to
15:05
people that this is a good thing for the
15:09
general population you have to get a
15:12
broad base of people in favor of this
15:14
and so you've got to think how do we
15:17
have a wide appeal if you look at cities
15:20
that have successfully passed referendum
15:22
on this you see that they fund a wide
15:24
range of activities including a lot of
15:26
community arts organizations they'll
15:29
often include things like the zoo or the
15:32
Botanical Gardens to try to get as wide
15:35
as wide a variety of people who can see
15:38
that yes I would at least benefit from
15:40
some of the things that this funds even
15:43
if not everything I don't tend to go to
15:45
the ballet but I do tend to go to the
15:46
zoo or vice versa you also have to have
15:50
people thinking it is fair and equitable
15:52
because if people think this is a tax
15:54
that is just going to fund the rich if
15:56
people think that some people are going
15:58
to get a free ride while they are
16:00
shouldering the bill they're gonna tend
16:02
to oppose that because one thing we know
16:04
when it comes to taxes is that fairness
16:08
plays a very large part on this one coda
16:13
to this whole thing and this happened
16:15
after I published the paper but in 2012
16:18
in 2012 of the three County area Oakland
16:22
County Wayne County and Macomb County
16:25
was included in this agreed to a
16:28
property tax increase for one
16:30
institution only and that's the Detroit
16:33
Museum of Art it has been a sort of a
16:36
troubled institution with very near
16:37
bankruptcy and so this was a property
16:40
tax increase that was smaller and
16:42
directly focused on one single
16:45
institution and part of the deal was if
16:48
it got this funding it would offer free
16:50
admission to everybody that's very much
16:53
like what they do in st. Louis so on st.
16:54
Louis they have a property tax it's
16:57
dedicated to the Art Museum but
16:59
our museum maintains a policy of free
17:01
admission so that everybody can benefit
17:03
from it so Detroit ended up going that
17:05
way but it did not pass this particular
17:09
earmarked tax so things to think about
17:11
for other cities that proposed these but
17:16
certainly an interesting case study and
17:17
I'd be really interested to see if
17:19
future researchers also dig down into
17:23
precinct level data and find out who
17:26
supports the Arts and who doesn't so
17:29
thanks very much
